Universal Home by America Chavez

Did you move around a lot as a kid? You probably didn’t think too much of it at the time, but looking back, your childhood might’ve been a semi-jarring experience. After all, it’s hard to have a stable social, academic and home life when you’re always picking up and leaving for somewhere else. 

Like moving, other big life changes can make us feel disoriented. That’s especially true for today’s Character Coaching client, America C. Like many of us, America’s reeling from a childhood full of big moves and major changes. Every time she moves, she thinks hard about how to belong, and even harder about what she wants in a permanent home someday. 

These questions have been plaguing her for some time now, which is why she’s finally ended up in our coaching orbit. America needs our help, so we’re going to see if we can strike up a conversation with her and get to the root of how all this constant turmoil makes her feel… more than that, we’ll see if we can help her overcome her fears of not fitting in. 

If you’re someone who’s been bombarded by a lot of change in your life, then this episode of Character Coaching is specifically for you. Be sure to read through America’s journals below, and then take a peek at the episode itself, because we get into some… interesting… hijinks throughout it. 

America’s first journal entry: Universal Home 

Entry One:

“My name is America, and I’ve got a problem. See… this is going to sound strange, but ever since I was a kid I’ve found myself moving between different universes. Jumping from place to place whenever I would get emotional, I never really had a place I would call home. Now I have better control of myself, but I still can’t find one place to belong to. And I’ve tried… oh man, I’ve tried. That universe where everyone was left handed, the universe where you could talk to trees, the universe where pizza was technically a salad. Now I’m here in the journal universe….and I don’t know if it’ll stick, but I really want to try.” — America C. 

First impressions: everywhere and nowhere all at once 

Hang on a minute. Before we start the coaching… can we just talk about the pizza-as-a-salad universe for a second? Not to rain on America’s parade, but who could be unhappy when they’ve got a universe like that to travel to on a whim? I know I certainly would feel right at home in a place like that… throw a little arugula on the crust of a six-cheese pie and call it a side salad… a man can dream… 

Okay, let’s get down to business. While I can’t specifically relate to the concept of leaving my dimension and ending up in another one, there’s definitely parts of my life that mirror America’s situation. 

For instance, I know what it’s like to jump from place to place, switching jobs or relationships or schools along the way. It can be a very disorienting experience, so I can see why America’s struggling to find a “home” for herself amid so much change. 

I’m sure that’s true of many of you reading, too. You’ve probably had an experience where you felt uprooted and displaced, with very few tools at your disposal to help you find a home for yourself. 

Things like these often happen for a few reasons. If it’s a job change, it’s usually because the career path you’re on isn’t a good fit, or else you’ve learned everything you can at a company, and feel ready to “move on.” 

As for moving homes or leaving relationships, sometimes those decisions aren’t up to us — sometimes, other people choose for us, leaving us to pick up the pieces of our old lives and cobble them into a new, different life path. 

The common thread between all of these experiences is that there’s many reasons people feel displaced. But in America’s case, I don’t actually know what her reason is — why does she feel not at home jumping universes? What’s her unique struggle that’s keeping her from staying in one place too long? 

More than that, where does America hope to get to after she’s done hopping? Is there an “ideal” universe she’d like to end up in? And what has she learned from all of the different places she’s been so far?

The reason I ask these questions is because I’m trying to understand a little more about America’s ability to develop and hone her emotional resilience. Emotional resilience is what allows people to achieve great things and overcome adversity without being torn apart by failure, and it’s an important trait to develop — learning to try and try again is a huge part of overcoming that “out of place” feeling, so I’m hoping we can learn more about America’s relationship with persistence in her next journal. 

I’m going to formalize these questions and ask America about them. For your part, think about the following questions and come up with your own answers. If you’re constantly feeling out of place, what’s keeping you from putting your roots down? And where do you ultimately hope to be?

Questions: 

  1. What is getting in the way of you sticking around wherever you land?
  2. Where are you hoping to get to?
  3. What have you learned from each new universe (re: emotional resilience)
america chavez
Image Credits

Next: looking for a landing pad 

Reply:

“When I was younger I lost my moms, and I feel like it affected how well I can connect to others. Now that I’m trying to use my skills to help others… I think I may have developed some trust issues. I have made friends along the way, don’t get me wrong, but they have their own lives and own spaces, their own universe that they belong to. I can’t help but shake the vibe that I’m an outsider… I want somewhere where I can be myself and belong, but also where I’m recognized for being a three-dimensional, well-developed person.”

This is a very interesting follow-up journal! It gives us a lot more information regarding America’s background, and delivers a key piece of the puzzle that was previously missing. It seems as though part of America’s difficulty lies in her inability to reconnect with her parents. That’s tragic, but it’s also understandable. 

While this specific scenario might not apply to you, it’s a good crash course in showing you how journaling works up-close. As coaches, we never want to assume too much about our clients, because doing so leads to giving bad, generic advice. Instead, we prefer to ask lots of questions and really dig deep to uncover the unique circumstances that are contributing to someone’s current life challenges. Should you decide to work with us, we’ll give you the same treatment we’re giving America — we’re not going to assume anything at all about you; instead, we’d rather learn about your life through lots of good questions. 

With that out of the way, we can start to dissect America’s follow-up entry. In her own words, it seems like she’s having troubles making real, lasting connections with people. Instead of being recognized as a three-dimensional human being, people only see a sliver of who she is, and that makes her feel alienated from the communities she enters. 

I’m sure a lot of us can relate to that. Most of us don’t keep in touch with past coworkers or bosses, and as a result, few of our colleagues understand who we really are. When that happens, it can feel isolating to work for those who see a two-dimensional version of yourself.

Here’s the thing: in life, when we job-hop, start a new relationship or move homes, it can often feel like we’re starting from scratch. But I don’t actually see it that way. Instead, we bring with us all the experiences we’ve ever had, and a major sea-change is just a new opportunity to reveal those experiences — and how they’ve impacted us — to others. 

So, instead of approaching a big change as starting from scratch, I might suggest that America draws on her favorite aspects of herself, and chooses to present those wherever she goes. Instead of thinking about how to belong (because thinking too much about that is the easiest way to not belong), I’d tell America to focus on other things — namely, the parts of herself she wants new friends and flames to see. 

Okay. Time to put those thoughts into question form, and follow up again. Let’s see what America has to say about our musings, shall we? 

Follow-up Questions: 

  1. What if you make your own space where people can see the full you?
  2. Is focusing on belonging the thing that’s preventing you from feeling at-home?
  3. What are the different dimensions you want people to see?

The check-in: a universal approach to healing  

Closing Journal:

“I don’t know if I’ll stay in the journal universe forever. It’s honestly getting a bit crowded for me, but I think it’s a good thing I popped in… this was helpful. I was kind of expecting a sentient notebook based on the name “The Journal that Talks Back,” so I’m glad that was just a name. I’m fairly certain I can’t make my own universe, BUT I do see what you’re getting at. How can I present myself as a fully realized adult if I don’t show off what makes me special and great? I move from universe to universe, and like you pointed out, that doesn’t have to be a bad thing… I’ve seen things folks can’t even dream of, and I could focus on those experiences to make those stronger connections.”

I love this journal entry. Why? Because it shows that America’s still a work in progress. You know, sometimes there’s a tendency for me to present these coaching scenarios as clear-cut, problem-to-solution equations, but the reality is that life’s never that neat and tidy. It’s clear from this journal that America’s still figuring a whole lot of things out, and probably will be for a long time. And that’s okay!

One thing I’m proud of America for doing is shifting away from using her past experiences as a reason to disconnect from others, and turning it into a strength that can be used to improve her future relationships. That’s something we’ve worked hard on together, and I’m happy she’s leaning into it. 

Part of the cool and unique thing about The Journal That Talks Back is that it allows both clients and coaches to reconsider someone’s life from a new perspective, and I feel like this has been a perfect example of that. Not only have we learned why America has difficulties connecting to others, but we also learned that her previously perceived weakness — her world-hopping — could be turned into an advantage.

This might be true of you, too. If you’re dealing with a similar problem as America, you might think you need to “fix” your tendency to switch careers, jobs or hometowns. But the truth is, there’s a thousand ways to look at your background that don’t involve lambasting yourself for seeking change. If you know that change will likely always be a part of your life, then it pays to think about how you can use that change to your advantage. 

In fact, the only thing I’m sad about is that America isn’t going to hang around in the journaling universe any longer… I was really starting to enjoy our conversations! But with her leaving, there’s always room for another prospective journal-ee to coach… 

The question is, might it be you? 

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Jon Rom: Character Coaching is an exploration of coaching principles applied to fictional characters by the host. Any likeness to real people or situations is coincidental. And none of the advice given is intended to take the place of real coaching. Learn more about getting accessible coaching at thejournaltalksback.com.

[00:00:21] Jonathan Friedman: I'm Jonathan

[00:00:22] Jon Rom: and I'm John. And, and this is Character Coaching, coaching character, coaching, ching ching ching.

Oh no. Not like this

[00:00:46] Jonathan Friedman: Sunday morning.

8:00 AM

Riding in early.

[00:00:52] Jon Rom: We're now, we're li we're listening to this as it's being recorded right now live, the listener. Um, but that being said, Johnny, I do have a story for you about what I did yesterday.

[00:01:11] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, are you gonna tell this story or you're just gonna leave me on the edge of my wobbly chair?

[00:01:16] Jon Rom: I was gonna wait, for you to say, what did you do yesterday?

[00:01:20] Jonathan Friedman: Okay. Uh, I'll humor you. What did you do yesterday John?

[00:01:25] Jon Rom: I went to two restaurants now. Hold on. I know that doesn't sound very exciting, but they were the two opposite restaurants.

So, I'll start you off with the first one that I went to. I went to an Italian restaurant for lunch. It was, uh, it was lovely. Uh, I had some pasta or pasta. Or, or Pista depending on what region you're from.

[00:01:51] Jonathan Friedman: For sure.

[00:01:51] Jon Rom: In, Italy and, uh, Billy Joel was there and he was discussing, uh, his, uh, high school friends with his, uh, with his acquaintance.

And it was fantastic. It was just a great time. And I highly recommend, uh, going to your local Italian restaurant and giving them business because it's a great time, but. I then went to the literal opposite. We'll call it a "restaurant" at the end of the day.

[00:02:20] Jonathan Friedman: Like restaurant in quotes?

[00:02:21] Jon Rom: Yes. Cause.

[00:02:22] Jonathan Friedman: Okay, got it.

[00:02:23] Jon Rom: Last night for dinner. I went to medieval times. Jonathan, have you ever been to medieval times?

[00:02:30] Jonathan Friedman: No, I have not, but I've seen pictures and I've seen videos and. Again, uh, we're we're Canadian over here.

[00:02:40] Jon Rom: Yeah.

[00:02:40] Jonathan Friedman: When we were young, there were a lot of commercials for this experience. So I'd, I'd love to hear more.

Did you have mutton, did you watch the Knights jousting? What, what did you see?

[00:02:48] Jon Rom: I did watch Knight jousting okay. So let me walk you through the experience. The first thing you do is walk into this like hall situation. They have, uh, chachkies and alcoholic beverages and suits of armor that you can buy for five to $6,000.

[00:03:06] Jonathan Friedman: Did you drink meat?

[00:03:08] Jon Rom: I did not drink any meat. I did have a piña colada slush though.

[00:03:13] Jonathan Friedman: A medieval piña colada.

[00:03:18] Jon Rom: And then. Once we were let in by table number, of course, we were led into the great hall where we, um, uh, uh, sat at our table with our metal, uh, uh, plates and, and metal bowls and were served, uh, a whole lot of food that I will, I will tell you were only okay.

The soup was decent, the chicken they gave you half a whole goddamn chicken, but it was. It was pretty bland if I'm honest with you, the potato was right and the corn was fine, but the knights, the knights were, I think that to be hired at this place, you need to be hot and you have to have long hair and you have to probably like horses, at least a little.

There was a lot of, there was a lot of more, um, dressage. Uh, um, more than I would've expected, honestly.

[00:04:21] Jonathan Friedman: Can you please describe to our listeners what dressage is, but specifically the way that you would describe dressage.

[00:04:27] Jon Rom: Uh, horse dancing, I guess? It's they made the horse dance for us a lot. um, and that was kind of like a whole bit, is that the queen had her, uh, is it Ibiza?

I I don't know the white horses that are really. Uh, they had a bunch of those and the knights then went and did, did games. where they like caught rings on lances and such. And that was pretty cool. Cause it was, and then that looked like pretty hard to do. And then there was jousting. And my knight, my knight was the green knight.

My knight got destroyed, Jonathan.

[00:05:14] Jonathan Friedman: Like define destroyed. He just got knocked off his horse?

[00:05:20] Jon Rom: More than that, my knight was beaten to a pulp, embarrassed, slandered. Um, my knight wasn't it was so unimportant. He wasn't even relevant enough for the main plot of the night. Uh, no, you know, sorry. It's confusing. The main plot of the evening where the, the, uh, uh, blue knight had gotten rogue and was just straight up, you know, merking people left and right. You know, no regard for honor, no regard for Chivalry, and I, I won't lie to you. I was a little POed that my knight was such a whip. You know, it's not, it's not that I expected, uh, him to win every match, but none? You win none of the matches green Knight.

[00:06:11] Jonathan Friedman: So. Um, that's rough

[00:06:15] Jon Rom: I did, I did throw my cup at him and, I I'm, I'm not, I'm not, obviously I'm not recommending that you do that. I'm just saying that he deserved it at least a little. I think, personally.

[00:06:31] Jonathan Friedman: It, it, we, it sounds like we should, uh, go back, uh, to our,oursr, um, Our good pal Zordon green knight, blue knight.

Uh I, I, I see some, uh, synergy going on here.

[00:06:44] Jon Rom: There is no, there is no way that a, a green knight is gonna be that much of a wimp in our reality in our world, but it does kinda bring us to the journal that I brought to you for you because the, the people live in different worlds, different times, different medieval times, different universes.

And, and we, we seem to have someone who's struggling with that. Um.

[00:07:15] Jonathan Friedman: Wait, hold up. Have we stopped doing our segue bit after however many episodes we're on now?

[00:07:21] Jon Rom: You know, we almost had an, we almost had semi-organic segue. You had to find out.

[00:07:26] Jonathan Friedman: I wasn't gonna allow the segue.

I wasn't gonna allow it. I needed to know if

[00:07:29] Jon Rom: fair enough

[00:07:29] Jonathan Friedman: for me.

I mean, one thing we talk a lot about on the show is. Having good communication. And you never brought up that we're doing organic segues. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were going for.

[00:07:42] Jon Rom: Part, part, part of it being an organic segue is you can't just be like, and now I'm going to make an organic segue.

That's not how segues work.

[00:07:48] Jonathan Friedman: That would be a segue in its most organic form though.

[00:07:52] Jon Rom: Organic segues sound like a new-age company that is producing motor vehicles that are made out of mulch.

[00:08:02] Jonathan Friedman: Exclusively hemp.

[00:08:03] Jon Rom: Exactly.

[00:08:05] Jonathan Friedman: All right. Well, yeah, I, I, I appreciate you trying, I'm sorry. Uh, that, that makes you kind of the green knight right?

Like, uh, you know, just got in your way kind of lost the segue battle. Could you imagine jousting on segues?

[00:08:18] Jon Rom: I. I can. And also, should we delete everything we just said? So we could make a million dollars cuz that uh, we'll call the money-making idea.

[00:08:31] Jonathan Friedman: Oh man. Instead of medieval we'll, we'll specifically call it modern times or non-medieval times

[00:08:38] Jon Rom: oh no, no.

Times.

[00:08:39] Jonathan Friedman: Time. Just, just The Time.

[00:08:41] Jon Rom: Just times

the times, current times.

[00:08:44] Jonathan Friedman: It'll be everything about the experience that you had. At medieval times, you know, the great hall, you know, instead of suits of armor, maybe. Mm. Maybe just regular suits just suits.

[00:09:00] Jon Rom: Yeah. You dress up in suits, uh, and you hold, what's a, you hold, um, uh, selfie sticks and.

[00:09:09] Jonathan Friedman: You have salads with green goddess dressing.

[00:09:12] Jon Rom: Exactly.

[00:09:13] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, for sure.

[00:09:13] Jon Rom: Um, and there is a Zumba break. For everyone to get, get, uh, get fit.

[00:09:20] Jonathan Friedman: Hey, mobility's important. And Zumba's great for that. So don't knock Zumba.

[00:09:25] Jon Rom: Well, I'm gonna Zumba all over to this, uh, journal.

[00:09:28] Jonathan Friedman: Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:09:29] Jon Rom: How's that one?

[00:09:30] Jonathan Friedman: You win this round, John.

[00:09:31] Jon Rom: Yeah, well, we got, we got one it's called, uh, uh, universal home written by America C

not a lot of, I don't mean a lot of people named countries, but I like, I like the name of America and I think if it wasn't the name of a country / a region. We would probably hear more people named America. Probably not a lot of people, not a lot of kids named Canada. When I think about it though, probably few.

[00:09:55] Jonathan Friedman: This is America.

[00:09:57] Jon Rom: This is, this is America. So, Universal Home was written by America, C.

"My name is America and I've got a problem. See, this is going to sound strange, but ever since I was a kid, I found myself moving between different universes, jumping from place to place. Whenever I would get emotional, I never really had a place I would call home. Now, I have better control of myself, but I still can't find one place to belong. And I've tried, oh man, I've tried. That universe, where everyone was lefthanded the universe, where you could talk to trees, the universe where pizza was technically a salad. Now I'm here in the journal universe.

And I don't know if it'll stick, bully want to try"

[00:10:43] Jonathan Friedman: before we get into it. I want to be in that universe where pizzas as a salad, that sounds like a great idea. We could add that to our modern times, um, list of menu items. You know?

[00:10:55] Jon Rom: I mean there's there. It's definitely, it'll feel like a commentary on, uh, uh, uh, current society. If we put salad on the menu and then we bring out a pizza with maybe like some arugula on it and say like, yep, there you go. That's a salad.

[00:11:12] Jonathan Friedman: Arugula is my favorite leaf. Nice and peppery.

It's delicious.

[00:11:17] Jon Rom: Um, I thought, I thought, I thought there was a joke there. Jonathan, are you just telling me that you like arugula?

[00:11:21] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, I love arugula.

[00:11:22] Jon Rom: It's okay.

[00:11:24] Jonathan Friedman: A lot of people make salads with romaine iceberg lettuce, or, you know, you go to the grocery store and you get yourself the spring mix. There's always a little arugula in there, but I want all arugula. That's the best salad leaf also delicious on pizza. It's a little balsamic over it.

It's man, I'm hungry.

[00:11:46] Jon Rom: I could tell, oh man, are we, are you gonna be okay? Are you gonna be able to make it to the end of this?

[00:11:53] Jonathan Friedman: Um, maybe we'll see, uh, you know, this wouldn't be the first podcast that we've cut off in the mid.

[00:12:04] Jon Rom: Oh, I, I got the joke Uhhuh. That's funny. That's good. That's funny.

[00:12:07] Jonathan Friedman: Thanks.

[00:12:08] Jon Rom: That's funny.

[00:12:08] Jonathan Friedman: I've been working on my chops.

[00:12:10] Jon Rom: Your chops, no.

[00:12:14] Jonathan Friedman: Okay.

So we're watching how we gonna.

[00:12:16] Jon Rom: We let's help this person, so you can .

[00:12:18] Jonathan Friedman: Let's an organic segue.

[00:12:19] Jon Rom: Pizza salad.

[00:12:20] Jonathan Friedman: Organic segue back.

[00:12:21] Jon Rom: Organic segue organically get back into it. Okay. So, uh, Jonathan, the truth is, is that, uh, this post is very confusing to me. Um, I, I feel like, I feel like we're, we're deep inside of a metaphor, but let's take it at face value.

I know what it's like to jump from place to place from job to job from career point to career point, you know, I've been, I've been in school for the last decade and interspersed, I had like some short term jobs and now in 2021, I had three different jobs trying to move up, move up that ladder, chase that paper.

I know what it feels like to not stick around anywhere long enough to. To find a place where I would say I belong. Uh, did, did any of this resonate to you for you?

[00:13:16] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I, I, um, have a similar background where I've had, you know, so, so many different kinds of jobs and in every single instance, it's like a, it is like a different universe.

It's a different way of doing the same things that somehow I'll come back to your skills. We hope so. Um, I, uh, can res can I resonate, can resonate with America over here. It's uh, I like ever this problem is unique because is unique and if, or every universe is unique and if you're a part of many, you know, that story is unique to you.

I think this problem is not necessarily so unique just at face value. I think a lot of us go through this one.

[00:14:08] Jon Rom: Yeah. And, and everyone's circumstances for leaving their jobs or leaving the areas that they go to are very unique, but. Uh, like mine, mine wasn't based on my career. I was in school.

I was, uh, moving around a lot. Uh, what, what if you were to average it out, Jonathan, why did you lose leave? Most of the jobs that you've left.

[00:14:33] Jonathan Friedman: That's a good question. And I'll throw it back to you after their brother, Jon, but, um, for me, I think there's kind of two tracks. There's one where you know, the job is just not a, a good fit personality wise or values-wise.

Um, as I want, whenever I'm working, I treat it very personally and I want it to align with my values some organizations just don't. So I'll leave. Um, the other instance where something is finished is often if I've learned everything I can learn in a certain place. I'll, um, I'll say, you know like I've had a good time, but it's time to try something new.

Um, how about you?

[00:15:16] Jon Rom: I, I guess I just was always distracted by the school. So I, I, I said to myself, oh, I'll stick in this job and do it like part-time, or I'll do this for the summer and, and, uh, see where it goes. And it always ended up with, there's no way I'm going to do school and this at the same time and succeeded both.

I'm just not that kind of person and I had the, uh, the privilege to do that. And now, now since, uh, since then, whenever I'm at a job, I'm just thinking like, okay, where can I go next to, um, make more money? Which I guess is. It's messed up, but that's the way I play video games too. Like the second I start any video game, I'm just like, okay, like, how do I get to the next level when

[00:16:01] Jonathan Friedman: when's Breath of The Wild Two coming out?

[00:16:03] Jon Rom: Exactly. When's Breath of The Wild Two coming out. Uh, how do I get to world eight one in Mario, even though I've just turned it on for the first time? Uh, where, how can I get the best shield, the best sword? Like I'm, I'm always mid-maxing. I'm always trying to climb that ladder.

[00:16:23] Jonathan Friedman: Chase that paper.

[00:16:24] Jon Rom: And chase that paper.

Exactly. And I think the question I wanna ask America, now that we're saying it is, what's keeping her from sticking around wherever she lands because it's them, not the advice, the coaching, the approach to this will be based on that. I think.

[00:16:53] Jonathan Friedman: I love that question. It's a really good question.

[00:16:56] Jon Rom: Thank you. I'm gonna, I'm gonna write down in my gratitude journal that you acknowledged that my question was good. Thank you for noticing me and acknowledging me.

[00:17:05] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm all about that brother, John.

I'll look at that.

I, I think that's a really good question. For me, I, I wanted. I, that's where I want to go as well.

Um, we can even ask, you know, more specifically, you know, now I'm here in this journal universe and I, I don't know if it'll stick, but I really wanna try, you know, way to go for trying. Uh, but what, what makes you unsure if it'll stick, you know, like more like she, uh, they brought up that question about being unsure and we can explore that that's a good opportunity.

So, uh, we're totally on the same page.

[00:17:43] Jon Rom: I love that.

[00:17:45] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:46] Jon Rom: Is there, is there anything else that you would want to know?

Are you speeding? Are you driving up your engine for thought and ideas?

[00:17:59] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly. I'm that's exactly. My, brain is lightning, McQueen. Um, so.

[00:18:08] Jon Rom: So folks I'm gonna I'm let me part the Kimono for a second. We're recording, we're recording at eight in the morning folks. It's not Jonathan's fault.

He's truly trying his best. He's, you know, not everyone's a morning person, but this is, this is the, you know, this is the skill you should be able to coach at a moment's notice and you should be able to coach the second you get outta bed and you gotta practice, practice, practice.

[00:18:32] Jonathan Friedman: You're right. And. My brain is finished revving, and I appreciate you parting the kimono, um, as all.

[00:18:40] Jon Rom: What a, what a terrible term.

[00:18:42] Jonathan Friedman: I, you brought it up before.

[00:18:44] Jon Rom: Yeah. We're yeah, I know. It's terrible. We're putting the tiger on the table and yelling at it.

[00:18:48] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, good. Yeah. You brought that one up before, too.

[00:18:51] Jon Rom: Yeah, well, that's the best way. That's the, I think that's the best way to say it.

[00:18:54] Jonathan Friedman: Here. Here's the other question we can ask what have you learned from being in all of those different universes?

How do you get acclimated when you enter a new universe where everything is different?

[00:19:09] Jon Rom: Hmm, interesting.

Interesting. Why do we wanna know that? How are we, what, what, what about the, what does that tell us about the story?

[00:19:17] Jonathan Friedman: Well, so there's this idea of, uh, emotional resilience and emotional resilience is really. Um, a key feature of people in the world who get things done. We often hear about people, you know, going through some sort of adversity or unique set of events and their ability to bounce back in the face of adversity. And, you know, after failing, be able to try and try and try again, really allows us to get to know, you know, what the strength of America is.

America. And the other thing it shows us is, um, you know, like if there's anything we can work on there, but also it shows, you know, what patterns do they already have in place when they're going through a big transition or in this case experiencing a whole different universe. There might be a different language. It's like moving to a new country with a new language that you don't yet know. It could be, you know, you might, uh, be.

I don't even know, you might have a job, you might, you might be a counselor or something. And then now you're counseling on a different topic than you did before. And, you know, the languages are different. The set of circumstances is different. Um, so I wanna learn a bit more about what America's experience was, you know, bouncing into those situations and, you know, maybe bouncing back through adversity.

[00:20:45] Jon Rom: Yeah. And yeah, that's a fair point. That's a fair point. Like, what are the skills you've learned along the way to become, uh, who you are? Cause I think we are, we are focusing on the fact that that on the transient nature of her, of her career, so far of her experiences so far, but you pick up stuff all along the way.

Who, what, what does that make you, who, who does that turn you into? Um, uh,

We, we should ask about where America has been and we should ask about where they think they're going too. Cause I, I, I, I, I guess, I guess the the the trouble with being transient is that you end up moving from place to place, but eventually. If you want to settle down somewhere, you need to think of where do you want to end up?

What is, what are, and water is the success criteria? How do you know you are where you wanna be? If you never really think about like, okay, where do I want to go? What, how, how, how does home look for me?

[00:21:57] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. And it could be that home can be many different places. Lots of people are lit up by moving around a lot and experiencing new things all the time.

But some people are moving around all the time and their vision of themselves is being, you know, in one place. So I think that's also a really good question to ask. We need to figure out what makes America the world's second-best country. That's what we have to figure out.

[00:22:27] Jon Rom: Oh man. You know, you know, what's funny about that statement. Isn't that's gonna make nobody happy.

That's always the goal of our show, which is impressive. Almost no one will enjoy that sentiment for different reasons.

Yeah.

[00:22:44] Jonathan Friedman: I'm sorry. Shall we organics segue to break and, uh, send these questions in?

[00:22:48] Jon Rom: Yeah, I'll send the questions out, put it, bring, bring up the, bring up the hip music that the kids are.

[00:22:53] Jonathan Friedman: Bring out the dancing lobsters,

[00:22:55] Jon Rom: Bring out the dancing lobsters.

[00:23:02] Jonathan Friedman: Oh man.

[00:23:28] Jon Rom: So we're, we're back. We, uh, we did, we did, we took a break. We, we recomposed ourselves.

[00:23:36] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, we ate the dancing lobsters.

[00:23:37] Jon Rom: We ate the, we ate the dancing lo that was dancing lobster? You told me that was, uh, the fresh catch of the day.

[00:23:45] Jonathan Friedman: Uh it's uh, dancing, lobster bisque. We made a little,

[00:23:48] Jon Rom: uh, I got bisque.

[00:23:50] Jonathan Friedman: You did get bisque. You, you, you BIS it for the biscuits.

[00:23:54] Jon Rom: Oh, we got, we got a reply post from, uh, from America. This might be the most unhinged episode we're getting there.

[00:24:03] Jonathan Friedman: I, I, my, my favorite thing is when we first started recording this show, you, you came up to me and you're like, Jonathan, we have to, you have to have, you know, you have to lean more into your funny side.

Now our show are you trying to just get me back on track all the time? we've, uh, traded places.

[00:24:22] Jon Rom: Oh no, we've over, we've overcorrected. We've violently over corrected. Okay. Fair enough.

Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:24:29] Jonathan Friedman: So yeah, let's get to this reply post.

[00:24:31] Jon Rom: Yeah, you're right.

You're right.

[00:24:32] Jonathan Friedman: All business

[00:24:33] Jon Rom: sure.

Okay. Well, it's a very morose opening, so that'll help us. Um, America writes back:

"When I was younger, I lost my mom and I feel like it affected how well I can connect to others. Now that I'm trying to use my skills to help others. I think I may have developed some trust issues. I have made friends along the way, don't get me wrong, but they have their own lives and own spaces, their own universe that they belong to.

I can't help, but shake the vibe that I'm an outsider. I want someone where, sorry, I want somewhere where I can be myself and belong, but also where I'm recognized for being a three-dimensional well-developed person. "

[00:25:19] Jonathan Friedman: Hmm, that's a good journal. That's a good reply.

[00:25:22] Jon Rom: That's uh, that's a spicy meatball. I learned, I learned to say that from the Italian restaurant that I went to.

[00:25:28] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, right. We, we, we focus so much on medieval times that we, uh, we never really went deep into the, into the experience, but because we're all business now, I think,

All business.

I think what's interesting. If you look at the first journal and you look at the second journal. It's not, that the problem from the second the reply post didn't exist in the first journal like that, it's clear that there's, uh, a good thread building up here.

[00:25:55] Jon Rom: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:55] Jonathan Friedman: But depending on the questions we could have asked America, we wouldn't have gotten here. This is very good. So like when we're checking our story and getting the story, it's really important to check our biases and to ask questions that are not necessarily directive, but based on the journal itself, because when you do that, you'll often get to this deep place, which is the point of it.

The point of this back and forth with having the person on the other end is to go deep, fast. So

I'm excited about where we're.

[00:26:36] Jon Rom: Okay. I'm gonna, yeah, we're gonna rephrase that. it's the depth of, of, of the complexity that we're trying to penetrate.

[00:26:45] Jonathan Friedman: Well, we're gonna rephrase that. It's the depth of the complexity.

[00:26:49] Jon Rom: It's the depth of the depth. Okay.

[00:26:50] Jonathan Friedman: What universe are we in?

[00:26:52] Jon Rom: Well, well, we're in the journal universe and I think in the journal universe, double pounders don't exist. And we, we understand a little bit better where, uh, uh, America's coming from it. And, and honestly, you, you put it, you put it quite well, Jonathan because the problem seems to have taken on a new flavor, a new character, uh, in that it's not just about where America wants to end up.

It's also about the connections, the bonds that America is making, and where she ends up. Uh, where there's, it's not like, it's not like, it's not like when you bounce from job to job, you don't make friends, but it's, it's up to you too, to collect friends that see you for who you are, and also for you to maintain those connections. Like I've. I, honestly, can't think of a job where I stay in touch with, a coworker, a past coworker just because I'm terrible at it. And they only saw a little small fraction of a facet of my life, uh, when I was working there. And I didn't feel like they knew everything about me, that they didn't know the full three dimensions. Of who I was. And, and I'm trying not to, to empathize too much with this, supposed to see myself in it, but I, I get where she's coming from is that you want to have those people see you for the full person that you are not just, um, not just the drifter.

[00:28:32] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, for sure. I think we're.

I'm, I, I like the idea of, you know, in different environments, people see a fraction of you. So for me, where I'm, where I want to come from is I wanna learn a bit more about what fractions did people see that America like, that those people saw, you know? So what are the different dimensions that America likes that people see that'll make America a three-dimensional well-developed person in those people's eyes?

Because it's clear that America is looking to be seen a certain way. So I wanna see how America wants to be seen in a, that that was a bit convoluted, but I hope I got my point across there. um, how, how, how people see how America wants to be seen.

[00:29:19] Jon Rom: How America wants to be seen. That also sounds like a book title, but, uh, what are the, yeah, what are the different dimensions?

You're right. You know, you, she is, I'm sure she is a three-dimensional person. She's a fully realized, uh, uh, character, but, but what does she, how does she wanna present that to her, to her friends' loved ones, coworkers. The people she surrounds themselves with so that she feels part of their world.

[00:29:46] Jonathan Friedman: Beautiful. Thank you. Exactly. I think sometimes we feel like we're starting from scratch, but in, in, in, in these kinds of uh, problems, but we've shown parts of ourselves that we like to share over and over again. It's just that in different universes, in different jobs, in different environments, we are only showing. A little bit of ourselves, because it's only the part of ourselves that can show up at that job where that universe, where pizza's a salad and you have to be into tomatoes, which should never be on a pizza other than in a sauce form.

[00:30:26] Jon Rom: I also, I wonder if there's an, a little bit of, um,

I'm trying to think of a non-nerdy way, to say it. But when you observe an electron, the electron moves it it's called Schrödinger's theory of something such but

[00:30:47] Jonathan Friedman: Cats.

[00:30:48] Jon Rom: Cats. Yeah. Schrödinger's cat theory. And when, when you, um, when you observe a problem too hard, too, Excuse me when you observe a problem too closely, you, uh, you end up maybe being a little too close to do anything about it.

You know, as focusing on belonging, preventing America from belonging, because excuse me, *sneeze.*

[00:31:15] Jonathan Friedman: God bless you, Jon.

[00:31:18] Jon Rom: Thank you. I feel blessed. Um, You know, when you focus on something too closely, uh, it, it, it's hard to see the forest for the trees. You can't really, you can't belong if you're always trying to belong.

It's just something that starts to happen when you are yourself. Um, worrying too much about it doesn't necessarily yield great results. You might hope it's, it's a re it's a version of focusing too much on the liver is that if you're constantly focusing on the problem, you can't really. Move on to the solution.

[00:31:54] Jonathan Friedman: You can't get to world eight one in Mario.

[00:31:57] Jon Rom: You can't exactly. If you're constantly worried about the end of the level in Mario, you're not gonna see the Gumba uh, uh, in front of you, uh, and, and avoid their, uh, uh, inevitable March towards you. I also learned the wordy Gumba from the Italian restaurant yesterday.

Uh, Jonathan.

[00:32:19] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. When you ordered pasta,

[00:32:21] Jon Rom: I ordered pasta and I asked it for it and he said, " that's a Gumba" hmm.

[00:32:28] Jonathan Friedman: So I, I did mean to ask, and then we can organically segue back. But what kind of pasta did you get? Uh, I need to know.

[00:32:35] Jon Rom: I have been trying to remember desperately since I brought it up. And I, I cannot tell you, I know that when I asked for it and ordered it, I did say it with a little bit of, uh, an Italian accent.

I put a little, put a little English on that ball that, uh,

[00:32:56] Jonathan Friedman: Carbonaro?

[00:32:57] Jon Rom: Nope. Nope. Not that, um.

[00:33:00] Jonathan Friedman: Spaghetti.

[00:33:01] Jon Rom: No, I would've remembered spaghetti. Uh, it makes me angry. It makes me angry that I can't remember. Yeah. Going to the internet.

[00:33:14] Jonathan Friedman: Are you gonna look up the menu and find the one that finally likes hoof?

I mean.

You're gonna look at your like, oh, that's the one

[00:33:25] Jon Rom: Was it Capellini? Mm. I don't know God, you know,

[00:33:29] Jonathan Friedman: I'm a Carbonara man, myself.

[00:33:32] Jon Rom: Carbonara. Wow.

You see that video of that, you know, actually, no, let's not reference, let's not reference funny videos from the internet. There'll be no end to this. Do you ever notice how we are? Can't help, but make ourselves hungry when we do this podcast, is that, is that an illness that we have?

[00:33:51] Jonathan Friedman: Well, you started today's episode talking about. Well, yesterday, I went to two restaurants and here I had pasta pasta pasta, and then here I ate half a chicken and corn and potatoes and a piña colada slushie.

[00:34:12] Jon Rom: It's legitimate, it's a legitimate, uh, uh, gripe. Yes, I'll, I'll admit going to two restaurants is excessive and, obviously not something I would do regularly.

It just ended up working that way. We were, we were treated to the Italian restaurant, uh, my partner and I, so we, uh, we.

[00:34:31] Jonathan Friedman: Very nice.

[00:34:31] Jon Rom: We, we figured we would, um, invest in date, date, uh, our own money exactly into date night.

[00:34:38] Jonathan Friedman: Love it.

[00:34:38] Jon Rom: Uh, and we, I think I, as far as dates go, listen if you want to impress a girl by how well you can rip apart a, a, a kind of greasy chicken.

I really can't think of a better place than, uh, medieval times because no fork utensil, uh, is offered in the entirety of the establishment. Hazah Hazah. Hazah I did say hazah I think I said hazah at least seven times last night.

[00:35:13] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, no doubt. No doubt.

So organic segue. What, what questions do we wanna ask, uh, America over here?

[00:35:20] Jon Rom: So what's the goal? Where are you headed? What are you trying to, what, what are you trying to do here? You know, what are you, are you focusing on the problem, preventing her from feeling at home? Uh, what are the different dimensions that you want people to see?

[00:35:35] Jonathan Friedman: Amazing.

[00:35:35] Jon Rom: Uh, and.

Well, I, I don't have to tell you this Jonathan, but like sometimes when you, when you can't find the thing that you want to exist, you just, you make your own, you know, maybe if you can't find a universe that speaks to you exactly the way that you wanted to speak to you, then maybe you gotta make your universe.

[00:36:02] Jonathan Friedman: Hell's yeah. Entrepreneur spirit. I love it.

[00:36:05] Jon Rom: Exactly. Like what sometimes you, you build from scratch. I've I don't think that's for everyone. I've never started my own company. I've never, uh, built, built anything completely from scratch myself, but I've often found that I'm pretty complacent and, and content with what already exists.

There should also be those who look at the way things are and say, none of this suits my fancy, none of this, uh, uh, you know, tickles my toe. I want to build my own thing and then do it.

[00:36:43] Jonathan Friedman: There are only eight people who are gonna get that reference.

[00:36:46] Jon Rom: And those a people are, uh, very, are probably breathed out their nose sharply.

Um, and I appreciate their, uh, I appreciate their support.

[00:37:03] Jonathan Friedman: So let's, uh, send off these questions to America. Let's see what tickles them towed. And, uh, yeah, let's get this show on the road.

[00:37:11] Jon Rom: Let's do that.

So Jonathan, before we get to the last post, uh, I think it's fair to say that we are not, uh, paying to be advertised. We don't pay for, we much like, uh, uh, medieval times, which no longer has any radio or television commercials. We are also not on the television or radio. We are just in our listener's ear holes.

[00:37:58] Jonathan Friedman: What you're saying, we don't have a budget.

[00:38:00] Jon Rom: We, well, I'm sure we have some sort of budget. We just haven't spent it because we are listener-supported and,

[00:38:06] Jonathan Friedman: and that's true.

[00:38:07] Jon Rom: The way we get support is by the listeners going up to their friends, um, preferably at a time of day, that would be socially acceptable and saying: Hey, there's this show it's about coaching, they coach characters. Um, and then they tell their dad and their dad tells all his coworkers, presumably, and that's at least that's like eight people are right there

[00:38:35] Jonathan Friedman: or in, uh, some, some cases, um, people can go into other universes ones with, uh, salad pizzas. and can share, I'm not sure what kind of listening platforms they have there. Presumably, it's still Spotify mm-hmm, or Apple music or any number of other podcasting platforms also exist there. Um, and you know, can spread through, uh, the multiverse. And, uh, whoever's listening to this show. Um, if you're enjoying it, we invite you to, uh, share it with your friends, uh, any share on social media, connecting with us on social media and anybody who gives it a listen is, um, the greatest compliment you can give us.

Um, so feel free to check us out on TikTok, and Instagram. Um, The journal that talks back.com uh, TikTok all of the places and, uh, yeah, like share comment. And, uh, if, if you so choose share with your friends, your family, and even your dog, we've.

[00:39:44] Jon Rom: Jonathan, Jonathan,

your Jonathan _ a _ Friedman?

[00:39:48] Jonathan Friedman: Absolutely.

And also at the journal that talks back on Instagram. Uh, Jonathan Friedman 1993 on TikTok, and then the journal that talks back on every other social media platform and, um, on all of the listening platforms, we are Character Coaching,

[00:40:04] Jon Rom: Jonathan,

[00:40:06] Jonathan Friedman: Jonathan.

[00:40:07] Jon Rom: Good morning.

[00:40:09] Jonathan Friedman: Morning.

[00:40:11] Jon Rom: We have a, we have a, we have a final, we have a final post.

[00:40:14] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, it's been weeks on zoom over here.

[00:40:16] Jon Rom: I know. Well,

decades on Zoom. I mean, in Zoom time, get don't get me started. It's, it's a te it's a long amount of time, but we did it.

[00:40:27] Jonathan Friedman: I'm excited.

[00:40:27] Jon Rom: Uh, well, I mean, we did it, America did it. She wrote back says.

[00:40:32] Jonathan Friedman: Way to, go America.

[00:40:33] Jon Rom: Way to go America. God.

Thank America.

[00:40:37] Jonathan Friedman: Oh God.

[00:40:39] Jon Rom: America writes: "I don't know if I'll stay in journal universe forever. It's honestly getting a bit crowded for me, but I think it's a good thing that I popped in. This was helpful. I was kind of expecting a sentient notebook based on the name of the journal that talks back. So I'm glad it was just a name.

I'm fairly certain. I can't make my universe, but, and, but is capitalized. I do see what you're getting at. How can I present myself as a fully realized adult, if I don't show off what makes me special and great, I move from universe to universe? And like you pointed out that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

I've seen the things folks I've seen things. I've seen things folks can't even dream of. And I could focus on those experiences to make those stronger connections."

Hmm.

[00:41:29] Jonathan Friedman: Very nice.

[00:41:31] Jon Rom: I love that. I love that. You know, there's, there's maybe a tendency for us to present these, these. Posts later on that feel like the story is all, you know, wrapped up and complete and people are all coached out, but this is kind of in media res. America's still figuring, figuring themselves out.

They're still putting down onto, uh, paper who they want to be in and how they want to do it. We've shifted focus. And I, I've been really, I've been proud of them because shifting focus away from their whole set of experiences as de as a deterrent for making connections and using it as a strength has been one of our, um, focuses during, uh, their coaching.

So I'm glad that it's stuck as much as it has.

[00:42:26] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I think. People come to coaching and they're looking for like, you know, the, like everything's gonna change, but it's not so much about changing everything. It's often about the result. That means something is often that shifting focus piece because a lot of us have a lot of really great things in our corner that we're not looking at or approaching in a way that's meaningful or healthy to us.

Part of going through the journal that talks back to where that experience is about, uh, looking at those things and uniquely shifting our perspective. And I mean, there's still, obviously if, if America's down, there's a lot of things we can still work on together and, you know, Um, dive deep into each connection that they wanna make stronger and work on that.

Yeah. Uh, but you know, if, if, if this is it and we've worked, we've shifted that focus from, you know, being kind of in that weird limbo to having, uh, a good focus on making stronger connections. Um, yeah. Like a pat on the back, John, well done.

[00:43:42] Jon Rom: My back is padded congrat.

[00:43:45] Jonathan Friedman: Nice. How do you feel now?

[00:43:48] Jon Rom: How I, I feel.

[00:43:49] Jonathan Friedman: We know you needed some more positive reinforcement.

[00:43:52] Jon Rom: I need, well, I'm full of some sort of pasta dish and, and greasy chicken, but now I'm filled with, uh, support and, and encouragement, and that's the best thing to be filled with, but you know what else I wanna be filled with? Mm, wait, no,

[00:44:10] Jonathan Friedman: just say it. Let's say what you wanna say. Say S say.

[00:44:14] Jon Rom: Questions. I wanna be filled with questions, listener questions.

[00:44:17] Jonathan Friedman: You know what else I'd like to be filled?

[00:44:18] Jon Rom: Answer them. Sure. Go ahead.

[00:44:20] Jonathan Friedman: You what I'd like to be filled with John

[00:44:22] Jon Rom: yeahs.

[00:44:22] Jonathan Friedman: Delicious listener questions.

[00:44:24] Jon Rom: Listener question.

Do you have, do you have a listener question, Jonathan?

[00:44:28] Jonathan Friedman: Not yet, but let's see what I can find .

[00:44:32] Jon Rom: Well then what was even the point of the lead off?

[00:44:36] Jonathan Friedman: It's okay.

It's okay. That that's, we'll fix it in post. So we have this question in from Jim and the question is, um, how do you deal with mental health in the workplace? So we know some companies have been starting to, you know, introduce. Some resources, but often they're, you know, there, there there's a cap on how much you can use them.

Uh, we're finding a lot of young professionals sort of starting a new job at a big company and then leaving. And John, I'm curious why you think that is like, why are people leaving? Why is there a struggle for people to stay?

It's a big

[00:45:14] Jon Rom: question because there are a lot of different, there are a lot of different aspects to it.

Um, I, I, I'm not, I'm not there's there. I think this is the whole career is people designing less intrusive, less, uh, mentally taxing workplaces. But my understanding is that not enough is done the prevention of your deteriorating mental health. In the workplace. Uh, one of them, one of the classic examples is that, uh, workplaces demand you to be at, in the office for a certain amount of time.

Uh, and not for necessarily the amount of work that you need to get done. This leads people to pad their day with a lot of time-wasting effort, uh, which time-wasting time-wasting activities can be fun for a little bit, but it's not very fulfilling. It's not very relaxing. It's just you feeling pent up because you finish your work three hours into your work day.

And now you're just, you know, uh, uh, putzing around. And you don't want to go ask for more work because then your workload could be doubled, tripled, uh, on you with no extra benefit for that. Uh, since you're, since you're being paid hourly or salary, whatever, I think that, that the way to get into mental health.

Awareness and, and support in a company isn't just to supply resources for when things get bad. I think it's to build into the workplace, a culture that protects one's mental health, uh, sick days that you can have without having to. Uh, justify with a doctor's note, uh, mental health days that, uh, are built into the system perhaps a four-day work week, if you are in the culture that can, that can support that and benefit from it.

Uh, and to also have, uh, systems in place where people can just. Let it be known without reproach and judgment that things aren't going so well and that they are taking a negative turn. Um, there's always gonna be stress in the workplace. I'm not saying that we have to, uh, uh, get rid of all stress in work, but mental health in the workplace is the entirety of its the Hull of the ship.

Without that the whole thing stinks. So it's, it's in your best interest to be very vigilant about it while not putting too much strain on the whole thing, by demanding the people report to you, uh, how they're doing, but instead, find organic ways, eh, organically find organic ways for them to share how they're doing.

[00:48:22] Jonathan Friedman: I, I love that and I, I, I agree. Everything is about, um, Like almost prevention of prevention. We need to put things in place, even during the hiring and onboarding process with our boss. And just being honest, like, Hey, this is some stuff, you know, we're going through, um, could be like anxiety or could be other things.

And that when you're feeling anxious, some of the things you like to do are as follows and you can build up a really good plan with your employer. I think there's a huge stigma on this still. So I'm not saying in a lot of cases, this is easy by any means, but I think building a plan of what you need to be strong in your work is beneficial to both, um, you know, the company itself, the organization.

As well you, I know I've worked for companies that require doctor's notes for any sick days, including mental health days. And I had a doctor who, you know, when I mentioned I had anxiety, they said, again, have you tried yoga? Like that? Anxiety is not its be of a thing that goes on inside people's minds.

And I know a lot of different workplaces have different rules, but setting that up. From the beginning, even though it can be a little scary is a strong, um, way to build that the other thing is we know that companies all over the world are struggling to retain their young talent. And if you've been at an organization for a while and you know, you hear very valued, you have a, but you know, you're struggling, you're feeling anxious.

It might be hard to wake up in the morning. you have the power here, go to your boss, say, Hey, like, this is something that I need to be successful right now. And it's in their benefit to keep you because they're like going and having that conversation doesn't mean, you know, oh, well you have to leave the organization often.

They're going to put structures in place to help support you because it's in their benefit to keep, you know, the the the onboarded, the trained. The people who have been there for a while. You're um, what's the word?

[00:50:40] Jon Rom: Your, your you're human capital...

[00:50:43] Jonathan Friedman: You're very important to the workplace. You're you're valuable.

So, um, a lot of us look at mental health as a way like, oh, I have to hide it. I don't wanna share it. If I share it and people see that I'm weak, they're not gonna have my work. But I, I would suggest that it's kind of on the opposite by having those conversations. It's showing incredible strength. And it's also showing that, um, you value the workplace you're in the organization and that you want to build something in that can not only help you, but also probably help a lot of other people who are, you know, might be struggling to have that conversation.

Um, And I'm not sure if this is helpful at all, might be helpful. I hope it's helpful. Uh, but if anybody listening to this ever needs and is like wondering on what some of those conversations or what some different structures can look like to support, uh, your mental health in the workplace. Um, Jon and I are always available to have those conversations.

You can reach us at Jonathanz@thejournalthattalksback.com. You can also find us at thejournalthattalksback.com uh, on Instagram. @journalthattalksback all the journal that talks back, just Google searches. You'll find us, send us an email, or send us a DM. We'll be here to, uh, jump on a call with you, happily or answer any questions you might have.

Uh, Jon, where else can people find us?

[00:52:04] Jon Rom: Jonathan, that segue was so organic. There's a grass growing on top

[00:52:08] Jonathan Friedman: Astroturf.

[00:52:10] Jon Rom: Astroturf. This is so organic. Uh, where else can they, they can find us, they can find us on Netflix.

[00:52:19] Jonathan Friedman: yo character coaching. Netflix special actually would be so good.

[00:52:21] Jon Rom: So we're character coaching that seriously.

It's just us. Uh, talking to the characters that have made this, uh, podcast and international success on television. And, um, this is going into my, you know, my dream journal, which is separate from my writing.

[00:52:39] Jonathan Friedman: And your gratitude journal.

[00:52:41] Jon Rom: And my gratitude journal I'm, I may be, I think I may be spending too much time in the journal universe.

[00:52:48] Jonathan Friedman: Never, never, no such thing.

[00:52:59] Jon Rom: Character Coaching is a production of The Journal That Talks Back a product, at Frame of Mind Coaching. To get accessible coaching for just $200 a month, book a free intake call at thejournaltalksback.com. Our music is The Swindler by The Original Orchestra featuring Ian Post. Our editing is done by one of the Jonathans on the show, which one? We'll never know.

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