Why would I leave this job? By Ron Swanson

“Stuck between a job and a hard place.” Like it or not, that describes a lot of our career paths. Sometimes we’re put in positions where we’re being shepherded along in a job that doesn’t really feel right for us, but we stick with it anyway. While money, familiarity and stability can make it hard to leave, other factors — such as favored coworkers leaving the office for different jobs, or new management coming down and making life more difficult — can make it feel impossible to stay. 

This is a common problem, and it’s one that our latest coach-ee is struggling with. His name is Ron Swanson, and he might just be the most single-mindedly free spirited person we’ve ever coached. The man is an oak tree in human form: he’s solid, built to outlast a storm, and practically impossible to uproot without some serious machinery. Despite that, he’s come to us for help in solving his current crisis.

Ron’s problem is that he’s struggling to see why he should stick with his current dead-end job in parks and recreational development. His motivation to leave? Ron hates all things government, doesn’t enjoy the work he does, and feels like his only important responsibility at work is to block others from getting work done. Not very inspirational, is it?

On top of this, Ron has a dream to do something bigger, more impactful, and meaningful with his life. Preferably, he’d love to own a cabin… and skin an elk while the surrounding wildlife look on in abject horror (his words, not ours). 

We’re going to help Ron out today by reading his journal entries to us, and we’ll see if we can give him some proper coaching on how to move forward at this point in his life. Stick with us if you’re facing a similar problem as Mr. Swanson — if you’re currently struggling to decide whether or not to stay in your job or move on for greener pastures, this one’s all about you. 

Ron’s first journal entry: steering without direction

Entry One:

“Dear Sir or Madam, I am trying this coaching internet website at the behest of my friend Leslie Knope, whom I owe several favors to. Recently, I have watched as my fellow coworkers have left the Parks and Recreation department where I work, and they too insist that I should consider where I am heading. Though I have already given you far too much of my personal information already, I will mention that I am a staunch libertarian and I hate the government. So why would I ever leave this government job? Hehehe. Is there anything I hate more than the government? Certainly. Skim milk, liars, and veganism. But I don’t dedicate nearly as much time to destroying those things as I do making sure this department does as little as possible while still being allowed to exist. Every bone in my body. Every fiber of my being wants me to get out of this poorly made balsa wood chair and into my own business. To feel truly useful. But something keeps me here and I am not sure what that is, but I can be sure about one thing….I like it less than I like fish meat, as meat. It’s not. End of communication.” — Ron Swanson 

First impressions: 

Well, one thing is certainly clear from Ron’s initial journal entry: he’s definitely set in his ways. We don’t like to make assumptions here at Character Coaching, but I think it’s safe to say our client has a pretty black-and-white view of the world, and that doesn’t leave a whole lot of wiggle room for new possibilities. Not that that’s a bad thing — that’s part of who Ron is, so we’re going to work with his mindset, rather than tell him he’s going about this whole job-crisis thing wrong. 

For starters, just because Ron comes off as stubborn or close-minded, that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily “stuck” in his job. Being in a stubborn or close-minded state doesn’t mean Ron will always be this way, and that’s true of anyone who feels stuck in their current position. You may feel rooted right now, but there are always paths forward, as long as you’re open to considering new possibilities and options.

Another possibility is that despite his frustrations, Ron might actually still like his job. It sounds like he’s considering leaving because a lot of his coworkers are moving on, but Ron might like the dependability and stability of his job. Sometimes that’s true of all of us — we start thinking something isn’t right for us simply because other people are making different choices around us. So, we need to get more deeply at the heart of what makes Mr. Swanson tick in order to really discern what he’s looking for.

Does he want something new and exciting? Or does he find his line of work fulfilling as it is? What would the alternatives to his current job look like? And does he really feel “stuck,” or is there something lying underneath that feeling that’s really motivating this line of questioning? Moreover, what’s going to give him that same level of joy he feels when eating… yes, you heard it right — bacon wrapped shrimp? 

Let’s ask Ron those questions, and see what bubbles up to the surface.  

Next: finding bacon-wrapped excitement 


  • When you think about all the things in your day that occur, from the people to the bacon wrapped shrimp, what gives you some sense of joy or excitement?
  • What would your own business look like?
  • Is it that you feel stuck?


“Stuck? No. The only thing that would make me stuck is the thought of bacon-wrapped shrimp at a buffet table. It’s my 3rd favorite food wrapped by my first favorite food. When I think about joy, that’s what I think about. I feel a sense of loyalty to the people who remain in the department. These people that I’m surrounded by won’t let me leave. Oddly, that makes me happy. They’re not friends, but they are here every day doing the work for the people. They are idiots. When I think about my business, I think about me being in my cabin far away from everyone. Me, a whittling knife, and a variety of tools that I will not tell you about because it is none of your concern. What will I make? None of your business... Am I stuck? No. I’m Ron *@&#&#(@ Swanson.End of communication.”


Very interesting. Now we’re starting to get at the root beliefs Ron has, and they’re helping us figure him out a little bit better. For starters, it seems like Ron has two conflicting desires: he loves his job because of his (self-described) idiot friends, but he’d also love to be out in a cabin, whittling away and doing hands-on work. 

At face value, it might seem impossible for Ron to do both of these things at once. But is it actually unfeasible to have the essence of two separate dreams at once? Notice I’m not saying Ron can necessarily have his cake and eat it too, but it’s highly likely that there are other ways he can find fulfillment without completely neglecting one aspiration or the other. Right now Ron doesn’t think he can have the essence of both of his favorite things — his friends and his outdoorsman lifestyle — but I’d like to challenge that line of thinking and see if it’s really true. 

Is there a way for Ron to be around his friends while also pursuing his own business opportunities? And how much does he really value both of these things? Is his business actually a true desire, or is it not bacon wrapped shrimp levels of exciting? These might sound like confrontational questions, but they’re going to help us really nail what Ron wants for his future.

For your part, consider your own goals and aspirations. Do you ever find yourself caught in an either-or thinking trap, where you believe you can’t keep your job and keep your friends? Or maybe it’s the other way around — maybe you feel like you can’t leave your job without having your own sense of stability, even though you did just fine before you got this position. Food for thought!

Okay. Let’s ask Ron a few final questions before giving him some time to reflect and respond. 

Ron Swanson's pyramind of greatness
source: https://pin.it/1w2SSLA

Follow-up Questions: 

  1. Why don’t your friends want you to leave?
  2. Do you feel the same joy when you think about your business as you do when you think about bacon-wrapped shrimp?
  3. Do you want to be surrounded by these people in the future, even if you don’t like them? Is work the only place you can see them?

The check-in: the best damn job a man can have

Closing Journal:

“Only 2 things have ever made me cry. When I got hit by a bus when I was 7, and when Lil Sebastien died. But I think you are…right. I like being around these people, and if I don’t have to stay at the damn government to be around them, then hooray for me. Soon I will be in my cabin building the best damn furniture a man can craft with his own two hands. And then I will put the money I earn into a hidden underground safe that neither you nor the government will ever find. I hope you will get a real job like I plan to. Good day. End of communication.”


Much like we started this journey with Ron, our communications have ended in a straightforward, stubborn yet charming way. I think we’ve succeeded at finding Ron’s comfortable middle ground — we’re not necessarily forcing him to make some black-and-white decision here; instead, he’s found a way to make all of the things he cares about compatible with one another. 

Will he keep his government job? Maybe. And will he actually start his own woodworking business? That’s also a big “maybe.” But what we do know is that Ron has officially broken out of his one-way thinking trap and started examining new ways of seeing the world, which is what’s really important.

For anyone out there in a similar position as Ron, the lesson here is (like Mr. Swanson himself) pretty straightforward. The truth is that sometimes in life you do have to make choices about important things, such as whether or not you should stay at your job, but that doesn’t mean those choices have to completely eliminate other possibilities. As long as you’re able to envision a path forward that gives you more of what you want, there will be ways to achieve those things. 

So if a new job feels right to you, go for it! You can always find ways to have the bits and pieces of your old career that you loved. And if you really love the stability of your job, but feel yourself pulled toward other threads by coworkers or other outside influences, you don’t have to “move on” just because someone’s telling you to do so. Being happy and comfortable in a job you know well is nothing to be ashamed of. 

Hopefully you’ve gleaned something from this! If not… well, then you might be just as stubborn as Mr. Swanson himself. But, again, that’s not a bad thing. And if you think you could benefit from your own journaling journey with us, stop by our blog to learn more about how to sign up for your own coaching crash course. 

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Jon Rom: Character coaching is an exploration coaching principles applied to fictional characters by the host. Any likeness to real people or situations is coincidental. And none of the advice given is intended to take the place of real coaching. Learn more about getting accessible coaching at thejournalthattalksback.com.

[00:00:21] Jonathan Friedman: I'm Jonathan

[00:00:22] Jon Rom: and I'm John and this is character coaching character coaching ching ching ching ching workup, episode energy. We're going to get.

[00:00:37] Jonathan Friedman: What is episode energy?

[00:00:40] Jon Rom: Episode energy is just like being full of ideas, but it's hard. It's, there's a reason why we do these in the morning because right now, I'm just like" all right, I can coach."

I just need to dig deep. It's like a deeper, you got to get that energy going

[00:00:56] Jonathan Friedman: well, you have to find those juices.

[00:00:58] Jon Rom: You gotta find the juices. .

[00:00:59] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. I think a problem that I've been noticing recently, and this comes off watching a lot of Gordon Ramsey videos is that a lot of people are, you know, cooking their journals and then not letting them rest after.

And then when you cut it, all the juice just seeps out and you want like a slow release as you're reading through the journal. Uh, so Gordon, I appreciate that. You Master chef.

[00:01:23] Jon Rom: You know, what my issue is? Is that I'm never, uh, confident enough to know that the, that the journal is done on the inside. So I'm constantly poking it with a fork to see if like a little bit of the juice comes out.

And then by the time, it's actually done cooking, all of the juices have just flown out of the journal and I've got this dry chewy gross journal.

[00:01:49] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I think one of the things you should consider instead of using a fork or a toothpick is using an infrared thermometer and that'll tell you how you know, how does it be on the inside.

You can tell if it's a, if it's a rare steak if you're going Chicago style, medium rare, well, well done, or congratulations. The other thing it'll show you within for thermometers specifically on the journals is how spicy they are, which is a unique feature, Black and Decker. I love you guys. You're great.

[00:02:25] Jon Rom: This episode is brought to you by Black and Decker home of the most robust cooking gadgets you can get on the market that also doubles as a weaponry system.

[00:02:39] Jonathan Friedman: I like how that when you were thinking of the word, the descriptors to use in an ad about manly things and construction and stuff, you're like the most robust.

[00:02:51] Jon Rom: Robust, robust is a word that you don't get to use in everyday vernacular.

And it should be a word that we use, like" Hey Jonathan, very robust."

[00:03:03] Jonathan Friedman: sure.

[00:03:04] Jon Rom: That's the view. How robust? Uh, yes. How robust indeed. Do you have a robust journal for me today?

[00:03:11] Jonathan Friedman: I do have a journal.

[00:03:12] Jon Rom: Jonathan robust it out,

[00:03:14] Jonathan Friedman: robust it out.

[00:03:17] Jon Rom: That's why fake laugh. Do you like it?

[00:03:20] Jonathan Friedman: It's because my lead into that was terrible, but that's okay.

That's okay. Well, well, well, well, we're warming up friends. We're warming up and,

[00:03:28] Jon Rom: uh, stay in the middle of.

[00:03:32] Jonathan Friedman: Well, you don't want it to be so hot and warm in the middle that's the mistake. See what I did there? A lot of people are making their, their, they're overcooking their steaks.

[00:03:45] Jon Rom: I didn't like your steak.

How do you like your steak? What is overcooked mean for you and what does a right look like for you?

[00:03:51] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, so if I'm, if I'm going to a good steak place or I'm buying a very nice steak. Not, you know, going and buying a $7 flank. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a ribeye and you have nice marbling and you have it's thicker and it has all of the

bone, the marbling, all of the stuff you want. You I'm eating that rare for sure.

[00:04:19] Jon Rom: Oh gosh.

[00:04:21] Jonathan Friedman: Generally when I go out, I do ask for medium-rare because you want to be careful like if you're going to a place where they're cooking a lot of steaks, it could be that they're, you know, at least seasoned, fake laugh here, or it could be that they're tired of cooking steaks and are paying attention to the cook temperatures and stuff like that.

But sometimes, you know, you need a little extra cook, but really with meat, um, you only need to cook the outside, uh, to 165 degrees and it's safe to eat from there.

[00:04:52] Jon Rom: Well, you know, you know, the old, uh, uh, the rick is to throw the steak at the wall and if it sticks to the wall, then that ain't steak that's spaghetti. Yeah.

[00:05:08] Jonathan Friedman: I can just imagine walking into, uh, the keg where there's, there's the kitchen where everyone's cooking stakes and there's an entire room of other chefs who are, you know, that next level of chef and their sole role is to whip stakes at the wall to see what doneness they are. It's like the dumbness was done this properly.

[00:05:29] Jon Rom: This episode brought to you by the keg whipping stakes at the wall in 1978.

[00:05:34] Jonathan Friedman: Is that how long they been around?

[00:05:35] Jon Rom: I don't know. I didn't look it up, but if I'm right, then that would be pretty creepy. A quick Google search.

[00:05:45] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, 1971.

[00:05:47] Jon Rom: Oh, hey, that's pretty close. Look at me.

[00:05:49] Jonathan Friedman: And it's Canadian.

[00:05:51] Jon Rom: Yeah, I was, I just realized that no one outside of Canada is going to know what the hell are we talking about.

[00:05:57] Jonathan Friedman: That's okay. But wow. I can tell you one that's a 51 year old they probably had a really good special last year.

[00:06:09] Jon Rom: I only missed it. Hey, happy birthday. The keg local Canadian, uh, restaurant chain.

[00:06:16] Jonathan Friedman: We missed the Jubilee year this year.

[00:06:21] Jon Rom: It's okay. We'll get, we'll get them in the diaDiamondbilee.

[00:06:23] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, heck yeah. If we're still around in, I guess 49 years left to go, uh, you and I go into the cake together.

[00:06:34] Jon Rom: Oh, yeah, they're going to well, and they're going to welcome us like Kings.

[00:06:37] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, it's because we saved their business with this episode.

[00:06:41] Jon Rom: Exactly.

Finally, things turned around when you told everyone that youth, we throw stakes at the wall for, for 50 odd years.

[00:06:50] Jonathan Friedman: It's not their spice blend. That's the secret.

Unlike some other chains, we know it's their process of making sure the cook is done in the way that you want it to be done.

[00:07:00] Jon Rom: Yeah.

[00:07:01] Jonathan Friedman: Medium rare sticks to the wall. Maximum seven seconds. Medium. Eight seconds. Medium. Well, 10 seconds. There's that extra two-second gap there for the doneness. And if you're going to a well done or a congratulations, it's sticking to the wall for roughly an extra four to five seconds up to 15 seconds above that, just charcoal.

[00:07:22] Jon Rom: You know, it's, we're coming to a recurring segment on the show that we come up with other ideas for podcasts.

What do you think about a show where we time, how long it takes for things to D stick themselves to a while when you throw it at a, at a set, uh, force?

[00:07:40] Jonathan Friedman: I would probably do better than what we're doing now.

[00:07:42] Jon Rom: Very likely.

[00:07:43] Jonathan Friedman: Very, very likely. What do you think of all? It has to be a food that's been cooked a little bit.

[00:07:51] Jon Rom: What do you think would stick to the wall for the longest amount of time? Oh gosh. Um, it's gotta be something sticky, right? Uh, I think something coded in honey, um, is, is Gulag Jamun? I probably didn't say that right.

[00:08:10] Jonathan Friedman: But I know exactly what you're talking about.

[00:08:12] Jon Rom: Like isn't it just straight up a ball of dough and honey, that would probably stick to the wall for a while.

[00:08:18] Jonathan Friedman: My concern I agree. I agree. I hear you. I'm validating your thoughts. My concern with the Gulab Jamun is that.

[00:08:27] Jon Rom: That's probably how it said.

[00:08:28] Jonathan Friedman: I think it's, uh, it's spherical it may be rolled down. Even though, I guess it would stick. Even if it's rolling. Something is still sticking to something.

[00:08:39] Jon Rom: If you're doing those softball throws, but I'm talking about a fever pitch here.

[00:08:43] Jonathan Friedman: Fever, pitch throw. Yeah. I feel like escargot or something like

[00:08:50] Jon Rom: more like Scar went.

[00:08:56] Jonathan Friedman: Whoa, snails. They have built-in suction cups you know what I mean?. So I feel like if you get the angle right, and avoid all of that sweet, sweet cheddar real deal, it'll, it'll stick for quite a long time.

[00:09:10] Jon Rom: Oh no. Sacre bleu the sweets cheddar it falls over the wall.

[00:09:17] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, to be honest, I think out of all of our, you know, plot B, um, side hustle, side hustle podcast.

I like this much better than bio boys.

[00:09:29] Jon Rom: Oh gosh escalate. This is, this the whole bit is going on to a lot and we need it. We need to read this journal.

[00:09:35] Jonathan Friedman: All right. So we have this journal. Thanks, John, for setting me straight, um, called "why would I leave this job" by Ron S is very professionally written. It goes:

Dear, sir or madam.

I'm trying this coaching internet website at the behest of my friend, Leslie Knope, to whom I owe several favors. Recently, I have watched this, my coworkers have left the parks and recreation department where I work and they two insist that I should consider where I am heading. So I've already given you far too much of my personal information.

I will mention that I am a staunch libertarian, and I hate the government. So would I ever leave this government job? He, he. Is there anything I hate more than the government? Certainly skim milk, liars, and veganism but I don't dedicate nearly as much time to destroying those things as I do, making sure this department does as little as possible while still being allowed to exist.

Every bone in my body, every fiber of my being wants me to get out of this poorly made also would chair head into my own business to feel truly useful. It's something that keeps me here and I am not sure what that is. But I can be sure about one thing. I like it less than I like fish meat as meat. It's not. End of communication.

[00:10:58] Jon Rom: You know, it's strange as you were reading that my beard grew thicker.

[00:11:04] Jonathan Friedman: How thick did it grow?

[00:11:06] Jon Rom: Pretty thick, thick hookah.

[00:11:08] Jonathan Friedman: Did it, did, did it grow length or does it just get thicker and thicker and thicker

[00:11:12] Jon Rom: it's just more full.

[00:11:14] Jonathan Friedman: Wow. Yeah, you're on the oil. How are you? What are you using?

[00:11:19] Jon Rom: Uh, I all you need is, is a firm, uh, this from handshake of a, of an introduction to this gentlemen, because this is, this is me.

This is, this is a this is a guy. This is a this is a dude. This is, at me at end of the communication. Yeah. Right. Like, so what do you think?

[00:11:50] Jonathan Friedman: Um, no, you hang up. So, uh, uh, I'm just swaying back. My segues aren't as good as yours. You're just like, oh yeah. And then this thing happened. And now back to our very special episode for me, I just have to, uh, and then, you know, everybody knows what's up next. Right? So it seems, or I like the word staunch here, which is what, uh, Mr. Ron uses.

And it's interesting because it seems like he has, there are a lot of staunch opinions about a lot of things here. We know there's an opinion, a very firm opinion about skim milk, liars, and veganism. There's a firm opinion, a staunch one, if you will, on balsa wood, which we know as very feeble wood, Jon isn't that the wood that's used for the tongue depressors?

[00:12:50] Jon Rom: I am almost offended that just because I am a physician, you think I know what we make the tongue depressors out of.

[00:13:00] Jonathan Friedman: Isn't that one of the questions on the M dog,

[00:13:06] Jon Rom: a man M dog is for, um, is, is, is the, uh, is the urban equivalent cat? Uh, gosh, no, the tongue depressors are made of the finest, uh, Oak and Magone.

[00:13:23] Jonathan Friedman: I feel like the bougie doctor has mahogany tongue depressors. So I feel like that's how, you know, you're in a, you're in a good place.

[00:13:31] Jon Rom: It's almost like a joke that they make in the nurses, uh, in the, in the nurses, a pool, when they're, when they're handing out the, uh, the assignments for the day,

[00:13:41] Jonathan Friedman: they're like, oh, oh yeah, you're going to go see, oh yes, Dr. Rob, he has the mahogany tongue depressors.

[00:13:50] Jon Rom: Yeah. I mean, I mean,

[00:13:51] Jonathan Friedman: the kind joke you were alluding to.

[00:13:53] Jon Rom: Yeah, well, the bougieness of, uh, of some of the doctors is that, oh, his stethoscope is made of the finest, uh, the finest metals, uh, that self they've self warm so that they will never, uh, uh, be crisp to the touch of the, uh, of the patient.

It's it, you know? Yeah. You always got them bougie doctors, the ones that are in private healthcare, uh,

[00:14:19] Jonathan Friedman: The ones who did well on their end doc

[00:14:21] Jon Rom: there I'm done. Yeah. Um, uh, not, not to mention they're up the dog.

[00:14:27] Jonathan Friedman: I don't know what's up dog.

Nah, uh, caught me again,

[00:14:32] Jon Rom: John, we have to help Ron.

[00:14:36] Jonathan Friedman: So what, where, where I read you this journal, there's a lot of very, you, you described it as a firm handshake and I think that.

Very astute of you. Where do you, where do you go? What did you, what are some of the things you noticed or some of the things you found reading it over for a fifth time now?

[00:14:55] Jon Rom: Stark opinions, stark opinions, and not just the, not just ones from winter foul, it's got stark opinions because the, um, the, the clear, the clear lines in the sand that this person draws from themselves, what they do, and don't like what they will, and won't.

Uh, abide by. It, kind ofnds itself to the problem that they presented to us. They have this, um, desire to, uh, be their own, pal, there and here they are stuck, um, being, being moseyed along. Uh, the, the path of life by the people that they, they're surrounded by because they're also leaving.

And, uh, you know, I can't say, I can't say that this is the first time I've heard of this. I, I know that when a group of people has been working together in an office for a long time and people keep on start moving on, they're feeling, there's like an unspoken pressure. Or in this case, it's spoken pressure, to start considering, like, where are you heading? Are you being left behind? Are you, uh, getting stuck in an old routine instead of looking at the next chapter in your life? And it seems like, it seems like Ron is dealing with that a little bit himself.

[00:16:19] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. One of the interesting things, and again, I caught on to the same starkness as you.

I think that's apparent here. And I believe there are kind of like two sides to every treat. And one of the other sides to starkness to me is kind of an open. You know, if you have a really strong opinion about something it's likely, and you're... I am again making assumptions, but, likely, you're kind of closed-minded in a way you're not open to new possibilities.

You're, you're happy where you are. You're firmly planted. And, uh, my hunch is that we're going to see that again and again and again, with Ron.

[00:17:01] Jon Rom: That's good, that's a good analogy. Treat. You know, trees are planted in the ground there, they have deeper roots, but they also sway with breezes and, and, and they sway so that they don't so that they can bend and that they don't break.

[00:17:14] Jonathan Friedman: Like in Groot

[00:17:15] Jon Rom: Groot exactly. Like the, uh, Guardians of The Galaxy character and beloved Marvel mascot, Groot.

[00:17:24] Jonathan Friedman: And, uh, Jon, if I could just quote Groot for a second.

[00:17:30] Jon Rom: I wonder, I wonder which one. Yeah,.

[00:17:32] Jonathan Friedman: I am. I am. I am Groot.

[00:17:37] Jon Rom: Um, which movie did, which movie is that from?

[00:17:40] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

[00:17:42] Jon Rom: Oh, right.

[00:17:42] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, you don't, you didn't, you didn't watch you don't.

You didn't hear here. Let me repeat it. Let me see if you got it.

I am Groot.

[00:17:51] Jon Rom: Oh. We're going a little. Or we got all got a little grocery there for a second.

[00:17:56] Jonathan Friedman: I don't, I don't speak, I don't, I don't come from the same place that Groot does, but what I'm really, what I'm trying to say is when Groot said I am, I am Groot. I feel like Ron could resonate with that. Do you know what I mean?

[00:18:13] Jon Rom: Are you just going to write back a reply that says I am Groot?

[00:18:18] Jonathan Friedman: Do you not, are we not this, the first episode where we're not on the same wavelength? Do you not understand what I am? I am Groot means?

[00:18:27] Jon Rom: I think, I think, you know, just like French, even though I studied the language of, of Groot's people for many years, it didn't stick.

So I think I'm going to need you to translate for me this time.

[00:18:39] Jonathan Friedman: I absolutely can, and we'll translate that for you.

[00:18:44] Jon Rom: Right after these messages.

[00:18:47] Jonathan Friedman: So when we, when we look at that, that passage from our good friend Groot. I believe what Groot is trying to say is to be like the tree moving in the wind, spreading new seeds, and trying new things.

It's not about the roots that are firmly planted. It's about where you go next. And I thought that was an impactful passage from Groot. And there's that piece and there's this idea that Ron is so stuck and so set in their beliefs over here about, you know, I am who I am. I'm going to stay here. I'm going to hate milk.

I hate to skim milk. I hate to skim milk. I am wrong and not be open to the possibility of moving or floating onto the next thing, even though, you know, in this case, Uh, the behest of their friend, Leslie Knope that Leslie Knope is looking at, moving on and potentially other people in the officer as well.

[00:19:48] Jon Rom: You know, it just dawned on me that, um, you know, Ron's run has outlined to us that, uh, he hates working. He hates the government, and so he works in the government to make it as inefficient if inefficient as possible. Are there equivalents for that in other careers, like, is there someone who gives terrible advice and so has purposefully gone into coaching to bring down the, uh, the institution from the inside.

And is that person me? I wonder.

[00:20:27] Jonathan Friedman: Hmm, very interesting

[00:20:29] Jon Rom: Am I a sleeper Agent whereas Ron is a much very deliberately, uh, making, making government more inefficient, which seems like it should be impossible.

[00:20:40] Jonathan Friedman: But you mentioned, you know, the state of this balsa wood chair and starting a new business. I'm wondering if, you know, there's that earth that we can sort of tap into with Ron.

What does a job that, you know, can have strong roots? I can be. You know, firmly planted, firmly entrenched that maybe your work every day, isn't just to, you know, make a joke of something else, but to create something cool and new and, you know, with good structure, maybe something is missing for Ron that, um, I think Groot was very perceptive to catch up.

[00:21:23] Jon Rom: Leave it to Groot okay. So, then it sounds like Tim, it sounds like to me that you're trying to understand what makes this guy tick.

[00:21:32] Jonathan Friedman: I think so because you can be stubborn and closed-minded, but stubborn and closed-minded, doesn't make a person, being stuck doesn't it make a person those are things that might happen to a person that might be a state that doesn't need to be a state forever.

So I want to understand beyond this sitting in a balsa wood chair, government official kind of character, what is there to run that might be missing? And what can we explore with Ron to look at new and potentially more exciting things?

[00:22:08] Jon Rom: And also, you know, as you can, you can clarify, are they stuck?

Uh, you know, maybe, they don't feel sick at all. Who knows? There's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people who want to do the same thing till the day that they're six feet under and that's fine if that's what they want. Uh, we, we got to figure out the needs and wants and desires of this person a little bit better.

[00:22:37] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I totally, and wholeheartedly agree with you. And also maybe, what's missing for Ron is a letter-writing class. And I would take place because man, this journal is very, very well-written.

[00:22:55] Jon Rom: Well, that's a that's the consequences of the people who work in government.

[00:23:00] Jonathan Friedman: You just become very good at writing journals.

[00:23:02] Jon Rom: Well, you got to cause you got to write all those letters, apologizing to people for the delay, the inevitable delay in service.

[00:23:10] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I guess that would be the case. So, let, let, let's ask a question here. And for me, I want to start with what would Ron's business sound like? And that's what I'd explore with Ron.

Do you have any questions you'd like, to throw Ron's way?

Like, uh, like a baseball or softball or a T-Ball.

[00:23:35] Jon Rom: So I'd want to know. I want to know, uh, Ron feels stuck and I want to ask it in a way that's not just a yes or no question, because if we if it's yes or no, we, we need to understand basically how Ron is feeling.

And I don't think that, um, that might be his strong suit discussing his feelings, uh, pretty, pretty close to the chest. Uh, place things close to the chest kind of guy. So maybe we can just coax it out of him and, and put it in such a way that we, we make him intrigued enough to open up a bit more.

[00:24:12] Jonathan Friedman: So why don't we go with something like this instead, instead of, are you stuck?

Why not? Let's take time, take a step back, and ask around what brings Ron more joy and more excitement? Is it, you know, you know, playing the government on a day to day, or is it the people or is it the bacon-wrapped shrimp that is presumably somewhere in the government office? I feel like every government office has a whole room just like packed with bacon-wrapped shrimp.

Do you know what I mean?

[00:24:45] Jon Rom: Uh, God, I hope so. Well, what are, what are our taxes going to, if not that?

[00:24:50] Jonathan Friedman: I hope only that I hope that meant I'd love to go into city hall one day. And just, you know, you walked by a boardroom walk by and other boardroom and suddenly there's a third boardroom, the third boardroom every single time.

That's just packed to the brim with bacon-wrapped shrimp.

[00:25:09] Jon Rom: Government, where is my bacon-wrapped shrimp? Where's the bacon-wrapped shrimp that you've promised me all these years?

[00:25:17] Jonathan Friedman: I feel like there's, there's, there's going to be one person, one government official who wants. Uh, there are sort of orders like those fried mushrooms or things like that.

But I feel like bacon-wrapped shrimp is the only order of appetizer kind of food that is necessary to fuel, our country.

[00:25:41] Jon Rom: Man, the scent, the idea of bacon rabbit mushrooms is such a bummer to me. I don't know. I don't know why, but I don't think that sounds good at all because I'm just thinking. Here's this like umami bomb in the middle of a salty thing, but there's so many, there are so many other things I would want to be in the middle of that other than mushroom.

Um, I guess, I guess a bacon-wrapped mushroom is the evil cousin of a bacon-wrap shrimp.

[00:26:16] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. It's the smokey, the bear of our time.

[00:26:18] Jon Rom: It's a smokey bear. Yeah. That's not going to make any sense to someone who didn't listen to our last episode, but let's be honest. You have binged every episode up until now so that you have context.

[00:26:29] Jonathan Friedman: Absolutely. So now that we have context, now that we have reserves, now that we have snacks, I'm going to take these questions. And again, just to, to, to go back to the point over here, we're gonna take a look at what gives Ron some sense of joy, some excitement. We're going to ask around that to get to the heart.

And then we're also going to ask, what does the business look like? Ron mentioned that business, and we want to start to explore what that new place looks like because maybe it's cooler.

[00:27:04] Jon Rom: Like the other side of the pillow.

[00:27:06] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, the other side of the pillow, we're not going to insert power metal on the sentence of.

[00:27:14] Jon Rom: Do you do, do you do?

[00:27:21] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, so, uh, Jon.

Uh, so we got another journal from Ron, which is good because initially, they didn't like the coaching internet website. It's a, it's a new, new experience for them. So we, Ron, appreciate you giving it a try.

[00:27:40] Jon Rom: And is this the guy who tried to send you a, send you a letter?

[00:27:45] Jonathan Friedman: I think so.

[00:27:46] Jon Rom: Handwritten lover.

[00:27:48] Jonathan Friedman: Let handwritten lover.

[00:27:50] Jon Rom: I handwritten, well, listen, you could probably make a hand, a widdle lever, and a handwritten letter.

[00:27:58] Jonathan Friedman: I feel like a handwritten lover is a song by John Mayer from 2003.

[00:28:03] Jon Rom: Yeah. And it's got a, it's got cords you haven't even heard of before surrounded by four very common chords.

[00:28:12] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. Ornaments.

[00:28:14] Jon Rom: Ornaments.

[00:28:16] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, that's a nice thought.

Hmm. I love you, John Mayer. Okay.

[00:28:22] Jon Rom: John Mayer, if you want to be coached on our podcast. Uh, right. I said the journal that talks back.

[00:28:27] Jonathan Friedman: Jonathan with a Z at the journal that talks back.

[00:28:29] Jon Rom: Oh yeah. That's another Jonathan. Oh, he has to come on the podcast now.

[00:28:32] Jonathan Friedman: Is John Mayer's full name, Jonathan?

[00:28:34] Jon Rom: God, I hope so. Immediately looking up... John Mayer.

I hope, I hope it's like a long name too. Damn. It's just John, John Clayton Mayer.


[00:28:50] Jonathan Friedman: I loved it.

[00:28:51] Jon Rom: Yeah. John Mayer is a lot older than I thought he was. He was born in 1977.

[00:28:56] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. He's pushing 50.

[00:28:58] Jon Rom: Stop, whatever. He'll always be 20-something in my heart.

[00:29:04] Jonathan Friedman: And written lover. One of my favorite John Mayer songs.

So we got this, a follow-up journal from, uh, Ron. And I'm going to go ahead and give it a read.

Stuck? No. The only thing that would make me stuck in the thought of bacon-wrapped shrimp at a buffet table. It's my third favorite food wraps by my first favorite food. When I think about joy, that's what I think about.

I feel a sense of loyalty to the people who remain in the department. These people that I'm surrounded by won't let me leave. Oddly, that makes me happy. They're not friends, but they are here every day doing the work for the people. They are idiots. When I think about my business, I think about me being in a cabin far away.

Me, a whittling knife and a variety of tools that I will not tell you about because it's none of your concern, but will I make none of your business? Am I stuck? No, I'm Ron. Then there's a bunch of symbols here, Swanson, so that there's a little, oh, end of the communication.

[00:30:03] Jon Rom: It's very nice that he, he lets us know when he's done.

I think that's a, it's a very efficient way to write.

[00:30:09] Jonathan Friedman: And here I am, the professional journal reader, not, not go into the end. But I, I just thought it was interesting that there was a little more identity here for someone who doesn't like people knowing their identity.

Very interesting. Very interesting, Mr. Swanson.

[00:30:26] Jon Rom: I think it is interesting. And I think it's very telling as well that we, I, I'm, I feel like I've known Ron for a long time and I feel like Ron's an old buddy because Ron is a very, very straightforward guy. You know, he likes what he likes and he dislikes what he dislikes, but it's obvious to me that when someone is so adamant about what their preferences are, and yet it clashes with one of their values. I imagine it's going to be a very difficult thing for him to mesh those two things. Cause on one hand he has this image of himself in mind being out in the woods, you know, making, making his, uh, making his arts and crafts.

Sorry. That's very, that's probably a little bit condescending, making his.

[00:31:23] Jonathan Friedman: Don't tell wrong.

[00:31:24] Jon Rom: Yeah, you're right. Fair enough. Making his, um, With his, with his whittling knife. But at the same time, he has loyalty. He values his loyalty to his, uh, beloved idiot friends. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with having two values that clash.

Uh, sometimes you got to find a way that makes, uh, makes them meld together or you have to just choose and, and, and there's sometimes there's just no way around that.

[00:31:59] Jonathan Friedman: Sometimes it is about making a choice, but the question is, is there a choice that you can have the essence of everything? Does it have to be you have to have either the job with all the people or the cabin in the woods with a whittling knife as you put it? Or can there be a little bit of column, a, a little bit of column B little bacon-wrapped shrimp, little mushroom plate, little Demi glass, little ribeye? Do you know what I mean? A little bit of everything that you could ever need to remain nourished both mentally and physically.

[00:32:34] Jon Rom: Jonathan. I do believe you're talking about finding the cracks.

[00:32:38] Jonathan Friedman: I do believe.


[00:32:45] Jon Rom: ma'am ma

[00:32:48] Jonathan Friedman: I think, I think one of the reasons I like working with staunch people is even though, there's this whole facade, there's this whole story, there's a lot of different things. We can kind of poke at a ton, and cover beliefs pretty quickly. And in this case, tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Ron doesn't think that they can have both the friends at the office because that's all he cares about.

There it's that loyalty and his dream job of running his business with a whittling knife doing as you put it, arts and crafts. Remember that on? Remember that, it was Jon who said that, not me. And, you know, working with woods that are superior to balsa wood, Mahogany, Oak, Teak. Maybe a Maple, maybe a nice bird's eye Maple.

Maybe he can do the roasting of the Maple himself. Maybe making some nice chairs that are sturdy, maybe a Papasan chair. What do you think? What's your favorite kind of thing to sit in? Jon?

[00:33:53] Jon Rom: I love to sit in my own, um, my messes and I think I made a mess a little bit of this because I forgot. I forgot an interesting.

An interesting, uh, strength about coaching is that you don't have to necessarily solve the problem. It's not about solving the problem. It's about identifying when the way that this person is thinking might be the thing that's stopping them from progressing forward. And you pointed it out. Ron doesn't think he can have both.

Cause he's dealing, uh, like a Sith in absolutely. He is, he is seeing them as dichotomous yes or no binary options. And that's not the truth here. In reality, there are shades of gray and he should be able to have his cake and eat it too, because, or have a stake and eat it too in this case.

[00:34:47] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, I was, that's literally where I was going to go.

[00:34:50] Jon Rom: Yeah. I set you up for a joke and then I stole it. You're welcome.

[00:34:54] Jonathan Friedman: You could...

[00:34:54] Jon Rom: The essence of comedy.

[00:34:57] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, the liquid smoke.

[00:34:58] Jon Rom: Liquid smoke is still in the air.

[00:35:01] Jonathan Friedman: So I think, I think I hit it right on that.

[00:35:06] Jon Rom: You did. I think I crushed it and I'm amazing. No, Jonathan, you nailed it. And, uh, you, you nailed it right in the joints, right where it needs to go. And you got the perfect, uh, you got the wood perfectly aligned. You did a great job perfectly crafting.

[00:35:28] Jonathan Friedman: Um, sorry, I'm just taking a quick bow. Well, uh,

[00:35:33] Jon Rom: what's the audit? What's the audit audible not well, what's the auditory version of a bow?

[00:35:43] Jonathan Friedman: Okay.

Cause it starts up high and then like vows down.

Oh, it's like the bass drop version of the curtsy.

[00:35:59] Jon Rom: I liked that. I like that you drop, uh, you dropped the bow, you dropped the shoe and you pick up the dupe.

[00:36:06] Jonathan Friedman: You dropped the Shoop, pick up the dupe. That's you, and you're a doctor. Yup.

[00:36:12] Jon Rom: No, those are all the words.

Guaran guaranteed.

[00:36:16] Jonathan Friedman: Guaranteed. So what questions do we want to ask Ron? I think for me, I want to know if there's a possibility of having both are being around Ron if being around the friend group and having a business opposite? Are they that different from each other? Is there a possibility of there being both?

[00:36:44] Jon Rom: And I, yeah.

And I think it's also important to understand, like what, to, what level. Does this idea of the business, bring him happiness? Because it's, um, the way he talks, we are presented with this idea of, of this being um, the end goal. Absolutely. But in reality, we don't know if this is such an important thing to him, and if it is it's important for us, to tease that out and understand fully that this is as important to him as the friend group and the people that he has surrounded himself, surrounded himself with.

[00:37:32] Jonathan Friedman: I love that. I love that. I love that. And one other thing I want to know is the joy around bacon-wrapped shrimp, shrimp, past tense, cramped, rambling shrimp. Is it trimmed or shramped?

[00:37:45] Jon Rom: It's shramped. It's S H R A M P E D. Shramped.

[00:37:51] Jonathan Friedman: I like our new movie Lady in the Shrimp.

[00:37:53] Jon Rom: Shrimp shoot.

[00:37:58] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, so back to, I'll try this question again,

[00:38:02] Jon Rom: go for it.

[00:38:03] Jonathan Friedman: You feel the same joy when thinking about your business as you do when you think about bacon-wrapped shrimp, is there so much glee around the business? Is it an item that is high up on Ron's mind? Like the bacon-wrapped shrimp? You mommy bomb of the business world.

[00:38:21] Jon Rom: I'm so hungry right now. I just realized that I would do anything, I would give up my entire life and move to the woods and w, and start whittling for a living.

If it meant that I could have some bacon-wrapped shrimp, uh, in the immediate future.

[00:38:44] Jonathan Friedman: The issue is if you're directly in the set and this might be another question to bring up with Ron and other times if you're in the middle of a forest procuring bacon beef bacon, but I mean, the shrimp might be difficult.

You might have to, might have to go into town once or twice and see your friends. Who knows?

[00:39:05] Jon Rom: There are woods next to oceans order shrimp live. Yeah, the ocean. When you can build a cabin in the woods, that's next.

In a treehouse.

And I live in a treehouse that has a net that you throw over the rocks into the, into the ocean catcher shrimp tramps.

[00:39:23] Jonathan Friedman: That's your shrimp. Well, if you, if you catch

[00:39:26] Jon Rom: each shrimp, it's true.

[00:39:27] Jonathan Friedman: You have shrimps.

[00:39:28] Jon Rom: I've learned a lot of words today.

[00:39:33] Jonathan Friedman: We're on a roll. We need to add to our initial dictionary of

[00:39:37] Jon Rom: Australia shramped is definitely in there now

[00:39:42] Jonathan Friedman: a hundred percent and the hit movie, the Disney movie. So, I'm going to go ahead and send off these questions and, uh, hopefully, we'll hear something back from our...

so we did together another journal.

I'm only going to do the auditory version of the ballad and I never have to battle again that that's worked out well. So, here is Ron's journal.

"Only two things have made, ever made me cry. When I got hit by a bus when I was seven and when little Sebastian died. But I think you are right. I like being around these people and if I don't have to stay in the damn government to be around them then hooray for me. Soon, I will be in my cabin building the best damn furniture a man can craft with his own two hands.

And I will put the money I earn into a hidden, underground, safe that neither you nor the government will ever find. I hope you will get a real job like I plan to.

Good day.

End of communication.

[00:40:58] Jon Rom: Oh man, we got, we got burnt that's cold.

[00:41:03] Jonathan Friedman: We got served like this, this not a real job is, is running a podcast where we coach characters live on the show, not a job.

[00:41:13] Jon Rom: He was insinuating that your coaching wasn't a real job.

[00:41:18] Jonathan Friedman: Oh. Who even, even harsher, even harsher burn. And if you're burning like that good luck. Good luck with sticking.

[00:41:26] Jon Rom: I mean, listen, there's, there's a, there's a job out there where someone invents new shapes for upcoming branded cereals coming out. So I can't say what is, uh, is, or is not a real job, but I will say that I think we got to the crux of, uh, what Ron wanted at the end of the day.

[00:41:50] Jonathan Friedman: And what's that?

[00:41:51] Jon Rom: It was the crafted furniture in the woods and hide their money underground apparently, but, but they did want to be surrounded. They wanted to honor the loyalty that they had to their friends. And, um, there's, there's a lot of ways to do that. But if you, if you, aren't thinking that you can have it all or that you can marry two extremes, then you're never going to see it.

And, uh, you know, despite us not having real jobs, I think we did succeed in, uh, getting, getting him to see a little bit of, uh, what he wanted.

[00:42:32] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. So I think one of the things that we do as coaches, maybe a fake job, but one of the things I think we excel at is noting how often two extremes are not often actually that extreme is having a back to our initial question, which I think we caught right away or I caught right away because I'm

[00:42:55] Jon Rom: taking another Bab.

[00:42:56] Jonathan Friedman: Amazing. I think that. You can have your, like, again, you can have your steak, you need a TV, you can be in the, in, in the woods widdling, you can be making furniture. You can take your truck, drive into the city, sell your furniture, and see your friends. Maybe go to a, I heard JJ's diners are pretty great. They have a lot of breakfast food, which has a bacon Trent kind of person.

I, I can imagine that you know, I can imagine they have some bacon there.

[00:43:30] Jon Rom: Um, check out his episode, brought to you by JJ's Diner, or try our bacon. It's really good.

[00:43:37] Jonathan Friedman: Bacon for Bacon hashtag Aiken for bacon hashtag JJ's diner. Hashtag loves me a little bit.

[00:43:47] Jon Rom: Hashtag shrimp.

[00:43:50] Jonathan Friedman: Gotcha. Hashtag God's shrimp God shrimp.

That, uh, I like, it's interesting because a lot of times you get journals and it's not always so solution-focused. And if you noticed John, when we were going through these journals at the beginning, we weren't like, oh yeah, you like, you want to, you want to start a business. Here's how to start a business.

We have questions. We were like, okay, this is what Ron's saying. This seems to be the issue. Let's dig a little deeper and within a few journals. We were able to uncover and challenge the belief that you can't have friends and be a furniture maker. But in this case, Ron can have both. And I hope to hear from Ron again, like I can imagine there's going to be maybe poor internet connection in, uh, in, in the woods, but you know, we're, we're, we're tearing down trees and building new towers every day.

So, can I mention that'll, that'll improve?

[00:44:48] Jon Rom: I'm excited to get a piece of wood uh, with, uh, with some words burned into it that just say the end of the communication.

[00:45:00] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, that'd be so good. It, if you ever have a revolving door on one side, it says welcome on the other side, it says end of the communication. You always know what you're getting or going out of it.

[00:45:12] Jon Rom: You know, and, and it really, it challenges us to be presented with journals where we are tempted to fall into the trap of trying to problem-solve.

But it's not just about, you know, presenting solutions. It's about, uh, uh, presenting a person to themselves.

[00:45:38] Jonathan Friedman: Very very robust.

[00:45:40] Jon Rom: Very staunch of me.

[00:45:43] Jonathan Friedman: Very staunch, very robust.

[00:45:45] Jon Rom: I believe I have shramped.

[00:45:46] Jonathan Friedman: I believe you have shramped too. And speaking of shrimp, we have

[00:45:50] Jon Rom: hit me with it.

[00:45:53] Jonathan Friedman: Okay, actually, this is a good one. So, we have this question in from Erica Erica one of our young listeners and they mentioned this question. How can I handle this anxiety at a young age? I'm 13. And I can't focus on my studies. So one, Erica, thank you for throwing that question in. I think that's a very powerful question.

I think a lot of young people, especially now are experiencing anxiety at younger and younger ages. Isn't that?

[00:46:23] Jon Rom: I think, uh, I think, you know, We are, we're dealing with a bit of an epidemic here because you know, certainly exacerbated by the pandemic and people feeling like they're living in the end times though I'm sure I can't think of why that might be. They, um, they feel anxious it's hard to, uh, feel that level of anxiety and go about your day-to-day. Um, I have, I have an answer in mind for this, but I'm curious, uh, Jonathan, what do you think, what do you think you would advise Erica with?

[00:47:01] Jonathan Friedman: So, first I'd want to know, like the truth is in this case, especially with a, with a younger individual, uh, I would a hundred percent want to ask Erica some more questions around, you know, what does that anxiety feel like? Does it show up when they, you know, maybe get on the school bus and go to school? Is it like a transition kind of thing, leaving a safe home and going to school?

Is it when it's gym class, but everyone has to wear their masks. So it feels less fun. And that lack of safety and fun could be a bit of a thing. Is it, you know, there's more or less work or your friends are coming in and out of school, maybe sick and not sick sometimes? Or it could be that people have different opinions.

Um, and that creates a bit of instability. I'd want to know a bit more about that, but just reading the question, um, I'd want to share some strategies on how to deal with any type of anxiety, even though, it's different strokes for different folks, but there are some really good general things we can try.

Um, that'll sort of, you know, open the door to understanding our anxiety, Jon, what do you think?

[00:48:15] Jon Rom: I think that's brilliant and understanding anxiety is important because it gives you context for what you're feeling. Uh, I would, I would talk to her, especially at her age. I would talk to her about the ideas of youth stress and distress or distress because the stress that you feel when you're, for example, a set up with, with, uh, a fair bit of homework that you have to do, uh, that stress can be motivating. It can, can motivate you to want to get rid of it and act as a, uh, negative reinforcement. It's, it's a bad thing that gets you to do something. Um, There's also distress where the stress goes far past the point where it could be helpful and shuts you down.

And makes you feel anxious and over overloaded. And the reason why I feel it's so important to differentiate between the two is that some of the stress that you're feeling can be useful. It can be used for, uh, all types of purposes and it can drive you. It can make you better at what you're trying to do would make you better at school, make you more attentive, uh, uh, uh, stress isn't necessarily always bad.

But the distress that most people are feeling now where it's aimless and it's based on things that they can't control. That's something that we want people to open up about. Uh, talk to professionals, talk to your therapist, talk to a coach and get the feeling that someone is listening to your problems and helping you organize them and make them feel more manageable and also telling you when you're trying to, uh, solve problems that have very little to do with you.

[00:50:06] Jonathan Friedman: And I think I love that. And I think Erica has done a really good job because, one of the pieces for me, whenever I'm looking at anxiety is noticing the lead-up to an anxiety attack. After all, a lot of people only go for help once they've had an actual anxiety tack, or, you know, a string of really big, and anxious episodes, a string of anxious episodes. And the first thing we want to do is start to notice when anxiety happens and not being able to focus on things, you know, is a really good early detector. We know for some people they're doing everything they can.

And then suddenly they start to lose a bit of focus and then maybe it starts to turn into something else, like maybe heavy itching or maybe heavier breathing or tunnel vision or things like that. And if we can notice when every single time there's a lack of focus, that means that anxiety is starting to happen.

We can start to notice when we need to take a break or when we might need to, you know, talk with a professional or even a friend or a parent or a family member.

[00:51:18] Jon Rom: Yeah, I love, I love that there's so many odd, you know, there are so many options available to you too, uh, to feel like you're heard when you're feeling anxious and having that support system is so amazing. Uh, and if people are looking for their support system, uh, and want to reach out to us to ask questions and maybe are interested in getting coached where can they reach us?

[00:51:45] Jonathan Friedman: Well, that was a powerful segue, John, uh, for anybody listening, wanting to share a listener question like Erica, or just share your thoughts about, uh, our good pal Ron over here, or any other episode, or really, if you just want to say hi, you can reach out to us at Jonathan's with a z at thejournalthattalksback.com and, uh, Jon, where can they find us?

[00:52:09] Jon Rom: I just realized that our, that our, um, email sounds like, uh, the opening to that, uh, anime Johnathanz Jonathan Z.

[00:52:22] Jonathan Friedman: That's everything we've wanted since a very young age.

[00:52:25] Jon Rom: It's good branding, good branding.

Where can we, we can be reached on Twitter and Facebook, and Instagram? And, uh, uh, you can send a letter to 1, 2, 3 fake street, uh, on the podcast, a podcast way uh, in Oregon.

[00:52:45] Jonathan Friedman: Sorry, John, I just want to correct you.

It's a podcast Boulevard.

[00:52:49] Jon Rom: Podcast Boulevard in Oregon.

This is Oregon. Now don't worry about the city.

[00:52:57] Jonathan Friedman: Perfect man,

[00:53:00] Jon Rom: Character Coaching as a production of The Journal that Talks Back a product at Frame of Mind Coaching to get accessible coaching for just $200 a month. Look for a free intake call at thejournalthattalksback.com.

Our music is The Swindler by The Original Orchestra. Featuring Ian Post. Our editing is done by one of the Jonathans on the show. Which one?

We'll never tell.