[00:00:00] Jon Ron: Character Coaching is an exploration of coaching principles applied to fictional characters by the host. Any likeness to real people or situations is coincidental. And none of the advice given is intended to take the place of real coaching. Learn more about getting accessible coaching at thejournaltalksback.com.
[00:00:21] Jonathan Friedman: I'm Jonathan.
[00:00:22] Jon Ron: And I'm John. And, and this is character coaching, coaching, character, coaching, character,
Do you think the lady who recorded recording in progress, um, had a lot of time to prepare, or do you think with the hectic nature of how, of how popular zoom became, uh, she, she did it like kind of haphazardly, like, uh, recording in progress as louder she could into her phone? And they're like, is that good?
Okay, cool. Let's go.
[00:01:09] Jonathan Friedman: I feel like when zoom realized that they wanted to have a voice saying meeting, being recorded, I feel like they knew exactly who to go to. I feel like there was somebody named Alyssa. Who just hangs out in a back room. She makes $400,000 a year. And her role in the world is to be voice prompts.
And she's just the best. She's the very best that ever was.
[00:01:35] Jon Ron: You think she's the same voice of the girl who does, uh, the TikTok voiceovers? Like, I can't believe I'm making this much money.
[00:01:44] Jonathan Friedman: I mean, it must be, I feel like there can only be room for one at the top, you know? We've been learning. We've been learning that people, uh, like should be training, uh, people to take over.
But I, I feel like Alyssa's there forever.
[00:01:59] Jon Ron: Yeah. Once you record that voice, once, you have it till the end of linear time. So like in the year 3000, we'll still be hearing, uh, Videos be like, I can't believe the robots are taking over.
[00:02:12] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. TikTok is here forever, for sure. Out of all the things that have longevity, TikTok is gonna be here.
I was watching, I was scrolling through the other day and I saw what marriages in 2040 are gonna be like, like Gen Z kids getting married. And it's just a choir singing my money. Don't J won't jiggle, jiggle in the back, but in like a choir. And it, it cracked me up. I watched it a few times. I feel like that will be the future.
Just that 42nd snippet. My money won't jiggle, jiggle, it folds.
[00:02:44] Jon Ron: Do you, do you take, uh, this woman to not be suss or cheugy to
[00:02:50] Jonathan Friedman: what's cheugy?
[00:02:52] Jon Ron: If you have to ask when you are cheugy.
[00:02:55] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, no.
[00:02:56] Jon Ron: Yeah. Sorry, sorry.
Sorry to be the one to inform you.
[00:02:59] Jonathan Friedman: I'm so old, so old.
[00:03:02] Jon Ron: I'm older than you.
[00:03:04] Jonathan Friedman: I know,
but you know what cheugy means and.
[00:03:06] Jon Ron: Yeah because I exist.
I live, I live on the internet.
[00:03:10] Jonathan Friedman: What does it mean?
[00:03:11] Jon Ron: I'm actually, I'm a re did you know that I'm a compilation of, uh, recorded words that are just put together for you to have a podcast? I, and I'm, I'm, uh, a, an entity of the internet.
[00:03:24] Jonathan Friedman: You're the, you're the least useful AI I know.
[00:03:29] Jon Ron: I wish people would stop saying that to me.
[00:03:33] Jonathan Friedman: It's like, okay. Like my, my, my, my team says, okay, Jonathan, you know, we have this great idea for a podcast. Uh, but you need a co-host and instead of getting another person we're gonna have this and just hear me out, just gonna be this character named Jon.
So you can be the Jonathans and it's completely AI. It's just a robot that knows how to ask questions and host podcasts and it's gonna be great. I, I.
[00:04:02] Jon Ron: My co-host put me on blast during the podcast recording and you'll never guess what he said.
[00:04:09] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, that's pretty good. You should write headlines.
[00:04:12] Jon Ron: Is, is this entire, is this entire intro to our show?
Just click bait for, uh, people who, um, want to hear impressions of, uh, fake TikTok voices.
[00:04:25] Jonathan Friedman: Well, you, you generated it from something.
[00:04:29] Jon Ron: I generated it from my mind, from my dome, for my, for my soul.
[00:04:33] Jonathan Friedman: The dome, the home of the AI.
[00:04:39] Jon Ron: All right. Can I turn the dome into a segue? Let's see, um, this,
this week we have, uh, a journal written by someone. Who's writing from their domicile. How's that?
[00:04:57] Jonathan Friedman: Not bad. I thought you were gonna do, uh, these Jonathans just received a journal and you won't guess who got it?
[00:05:05] Jon Ron: You won't guess, are they supposed to get, wait, have we been, have we been leaving out the part of the show where they're supposed to get a chance to, to guess who it is?
[00:05:18] Jonathan Friedman: I'm not sure if that was something we.. I'm, I'm open to it.
[00:05:22] Jon Ron: I here's what I want you to. Here's what we want you to do. Take out your pen and paper, uh, which you all have written down, uh, three guesses on who has written today's, uh, uh, um, post. And, uh, if you get it right, you win a chance to be a guest on the show.
[00:05:46] Jonathan Friedman: That's pretty good.
[00:05:48] Jon Ron: You will be the only other flesh and blood, uh, uh, cohost other than Jonathan, but you know, we'll, uh, we'll fit you in I'll, I'll adjust the AI so that you can, you can be in the recording.
[00:06:01] Jonathan Friedman: To allow for a third. Great. Okay.
[00:06:09] Jon Ron: I thought you were gonna say more. You said to allow for a third. Okay. To allow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There is a wait. Oh, Jonathan, are you saying there is another?
[00:06:17] Jonathan Friedman: There might be another.
[00:06:19] Jon Ron: Okay.
[00:06:19] Jonathan Friedman: I, I, I was just trying, I don't know you were on a roll with some stuff, so I just tried to lease some room for you.
You, you are a robot. So I figured you would get that. I guess.
[00:06:28] Jon Ron: I can't believe you paused after saying a third.
[00:06:32] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Dear robot.
[00:06:36] Jon Ron: Well, well, uh, this robot's gonna read the post that we got from, uh, Ben K who titled his, uh, his journal, my point of view, and Ben K writes.
Hopefully, I'm reaching you on a secure channel. My name is Ben and up until recently, I had a very important singular job to do watch over and eventually train my successor. Since my colleagues were, well, I guess you could say we were downsized. I've been in a sort of self-imposed semi-retirement so I can focus on this one task.
Now things have changed. I've been forcefully brought out of retirement, forced to run around the galaxy, feeling uneasy about what to do next, playing the part of a hero. I'm getting too old for this sort of thing. I've lost so much because of this job, regrettably, much of it due to my own foley. Being in my line of work, you don't always get to retire though.
I can't say I was enjoying retirement all that much. From my point of view, it feels as if I haven't any choices in life at all and that my destiny is spelled out in the stars. My master would tell me to remove all doubt and fear and to have faith. So stop trying and just do. What should I do?
[00:07:59] Jonathan Friedman: Do something you must.
[00:08:03] Jon Ron: Sorry.
I, I, I think your syntax might be a little messed up there. Are you okay?
[00:08:08] Jonathan Friedman: Oh yeah. Woo. Sorry. I was doing a, I reversed for a second. I, uh, spun my chair and that's what came out.
[00:08:15] Jon Ron: You spun your chair and you started talking backward. Is that how it works?
[00:08:19] Jonathan Friedman: If you spin in a chair while you speak the words that you speak, get spun.
[00:08:25] Jon Ron: See this. Now, this sounds like you're the AI and I'm the, and I'm the real person. And you're. Yeah. And you're trying to trick me.
[00:08:33] Jonathan Friedman: Listeners. You can choose what's real.
[00:08:36] Jon Ron: Only you can decide.
[00:08:38] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. We're gonna post, we're gonna post an Instagram, uh, poll in our story. It's gonna be like, who's, who's the real Jonathan.
[00:08:45] Jon Ron: I hope I'm not the real Jonathan. Cause if I'm the real Jonathan I'm, I have serious, serious, uh, uh, responsibilities that I'm currently avoiding.
[00:08:55] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. So, so John, when. Have you ever felt that way, where you feel like everything is kind of written out for you and you're just kind of a pawn in somebody else's plan?
Is that, is that a, is that an experience you have?
[00:09:13] Jon Ron: Hmm, I, it, it does. It does dawn on me that I've often felt like I was going through the motions, of a societal plan. Uh, I think, I think a lot of people go through. A sort of graduation from school to school, too, to high school, to program, to this, to that, to the other thing.
And then, you know, you get, you get pooped out at the end of it and you are kind of left with, with the little bit of decision making that you did along the way. And, and you just hope that you don't regret the decisions that you made. So I can kind of relate to what Ben is saying. Um, I think, uh, I think we're, I think we're all in danger of being, um, being wistful about our past.
If you look back long enough, you find something that didn't go exactly how you wanted it to go. And, and know that now you're kind of saddled with, uh, letting go of those feelings so that you can focus on whatever the hell you have to do right now.
[00:10:23] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. I, I think this is, um, I, I think I just got blown away by, by this writing, but I, I, I, I see what you mean.
It's, it's like, there's, I guess it's not prescribed, but there is a certain format of things in our life that we just do because they're there. And then after it all, like at what point do you say that it's time for you to take control of what's next?
[00:10:55] Jon Ron: Well, Jonathan, what do you, what do you think about, um, making hard left turns so that, so that you are, uh, uh, it's never in question that you're, that you're in control of your destiny, do you feel like that's the way to go is just make as many, um, intense decisions that aren't prescribed to, to undo that feeling of, of being of your life is on a rail.
[00:11:24] Jonathan Friedman: We never wanna be complacent. We never want to just, you know, be a victim of this thing called life and you know, it throwing us around. Um, but also when we sort of takes a lot of sharp left turns, um, the uncertainty of what's gonna happen next can also be a difficult thing to be a part of. So. It's interesting.
This question from Ben, you know, what should I do? Because what, what should you do at what point do you say, you know, I want to start, you know, being more spontaneous, trying new things, things that aren't part of my prescription, or is that something you need to do at all?
[00:12:11] Jon Ron: Well, you, you, yourself had spent a lot of time on a career path, right?
And you were well into that career when you decided to kind of switch gears and, and, and move and move to this coaching. And not amongst other things, you did a lot of different, a lot of different ventures in, in between. Uh, are you, are you ever saddled with looking back at the different, different, um, uh, uh, hard turns you've made in your career and wondering what if I did this?
Or what if I did that? Or do you tend to, do you tend to focus more on what you're doing right now?
[00:12:49] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, I think personally, I, I, I'm always thinking about, um, how I could have done something better, but that's not to say that everything I did was wrong. There are a lot of things that are just, I guess, for me, a part of learning, like there are a lot of takeaways I have from being a youth worker and, you know, owning a coffee business and, you know, doing web design for people.
That informs how I make decisions now, as an owner of a coaching company.
But, um, it's, it's interesting to think about, you know, um, what if things were different? And I think that kind of feeds into my anxiety about, you know, are those things gonna happen again here? Or if you just kind of trust the process.
I don't know. What, what, what do you think Jon?
[00:13:49] Jon Ron: I, I, I feel like trusting the process has gotten me, uh, through quite a bit of, of my career, but I've also felt like there were a lot of times where I trusted the process a little too much and didn't use enough of my decision-making skills at the time to, to guide my career.
I always think about how, uh, in undergrad, I could have done the same, uh, uh, a path that I did, but had a much easier time if I'd gone one way versus going a different one. Um, but that being said, everything that happened after that led me to where I was. And, and I don't know. I don't know though.
I, I regret, I regret missing certain opportunities. I still got to get to, uh, experience a lot of stuff because of the decisions I made all those years ago. I, I, I understand having doubt and fear, um, in your life though. I think Ben, I think Ben is, is relatable and, uh, you made a good point earlier. Yeah.
[00:14:55] Jonathan Friedman: Relatable.
[00:14:56] Jon Ron: You made a good point earlier. Like we don't have enough of the story. And, uh, I, I guess I would want to characterize the regret a little bit that he's, he's speaking to. Um, and, and how it's affecting his decision-making. Cause I don't think that part's super clear. Uh, what about you, Jonathan?
What would you wanna know?
[00:15:18] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I think there's, for me, there are two pieces. It's a piece. One is as coaches. It's part of our work with our clients to sort of help people remove that guilt stick that they carry around with them cause it doesn't serve them. But the other piece for me here with Ben is this idea of blue sky journaling and blue sky journaling if you could remove all constraints from your life, what would you do? What would, you know, what would it look like to wake up in the morning? Where would you be waking up? What kind of a bed would you be waking up in? What kind of view would you have?
What would you do from eight to nine? What would you do from nine to ten? So on and so forth. Um, and see how. So, and, and that's the journaling exercise in its entirety, and it might seem a little farfetched, but there's a lot of things that we have that are in our ideal world of what we should do or what we could do that might not be so difficult actually to implement.
So I would want to maybe go through that exercise with Ben, but the guilt is more concerning for me.
[00:16:29] Jon Ron: Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. And I think that should be one of the questions is, um, You know, where, where did past Ben see himself being when he got to, when he got to this point and, uh, what, what does he see for his future?
If everything were to go perfectly? I think those are two reasonable things, to ask. Uh, if, if I was picking up on what you were putting down.
[00:16:59] Jonathan Friedman: Thanks for calling me reasonable. That's a that's a first. I, I appreciate that.
[00:17:03] Jon Ron: My cohost is the most reasonable. You'll never guess what he said.
[00:17:11] Jonathan Friedman: Probably something reasonable.
[00:17:13] Jon Ron: He said something reasonable. Reasonable is, uh, something reasonable is the thing I, I tend to aim for, uh, if, if not, at least rational,
[00:17:27] Jonathan Friedman: what's the difference between reasonable and rational, I guess, reasonable would be something that others could reason with rational is something that you, you know, had to intellectually think about?
[00:17:37] Jon Ron: I would say, I would say that I, I strive for being, I rationally reasonable where if just, just anything happens and I just say mm-hmm okay.
Yeah. You know what, uh, we can deal with that. Uh, the house is on fire. Okay. All right. Uh, yeah, grab the, uh, grab the firing signature and, uh, we will, uh, we'll take care of.
[00:17:58] Jonathan Friedman: Where does rational reasonable fit on the alignment chart?
[00:18:02] Jon Ron: uh, definitely, definitely lawful, lawful neutral.
[00:18:09] Jonathan Friedman: So just dead, dead centcenter0:18:11] Jon Ron: Yeah.
Right in, right in with your, with your alignment. Uh, if you're a, uh, unreasonably rational person tot us know where you fall on the D and D alignment chart.
[00:18:26] Jonathan Friedman: So that'd be like, what lawful evil is that a thing?
[00:18:28] Jon Ron: Lawful evil is a thing. Yeah. It's when you, uh, like if you work at the DMV, you're probably pretty lawful evil.
What's a DMV?
The department of motor vehicles. It's like service Ontario, but in a different, uh, did you, did you wait, did you assume.
[00:18:45] Jonathan Friedman: I don't get non-Canadian.
[00:18:46] Jon Ron: Did you assume? Oh, I thought you were thinking that DMV was like a D and D term not
[00:18:51] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, no, no. That's what I thought. I. That's a hundred percent what I thought.
Oh yeah. If you're not part of the DMV, M like, is there like a, like the, te, the war tribe or something like that in DMD called the DMV.
[00:19:03] Jon Ron: I'm gonna create an entire.
[00:19:05] Jonathan Friedman: To be honest, I just don't get, I just don't get any government structures that aren't from Ontario.
[00:19:10] Jon Ron: I'm gonna create an entire too campaign just for you about surviving the DMV.
Uh, I think, every episode we're inching closer towards you playing D and D, and I'm creating the story as we go.
[00:19:24] Jonathan Friedman: I'd love to, I just feel like that 20-sided dice makes you feel powerful. I've been watching a lot of Stranger Things and whenever, they throw that dice, like damn that that's a lot of opportunities.
[00:19:38] Jon Ron: That's a lot of sides.
[00:19:40] Jonathan Friedman: 20 sides.
[00:19:41] Jon Ron: Not nothing.
[00:19:42] Jonathan Friedman: That's. Yeah. There's like a one-in-20 chance to land on every site. It's it's wild. It's wild.
[00:19:49] Jon Ron: Jonathan, do you think, do you think Ben is, is kind, is kind of personifying the job or, or conflating the job with, with the regrets about the past that he seems to have?
Cause, cause it, it sounds to me like. If you, really, really hate a job. And even if you're close to retirement, you usually tend to bounce instead of semi-retire. Uh, but if something just goes bad in that job, it, it's still, it's still something that you're good at. And you think you should do, you stick.
You tend to stick around, you just kind of take a more limited role. Um, and it sounds more like what happened was, was closer to the latter. And I'm happy to ask, but I was wondering, I was wondering, what do you think based on, uh, based on this initial, initial post that we have?
[00:20:44] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. I, I think you're exactly right.
I think that this here's what I think this is my hot take here.
[00:20:54] Jon Ron: Hot take alert.
[00:20:56] Jonathan Friedman: I think that hot take.
[00:20:58] Jon Ron: Hot take alert. You'll never guess what hot take Jonathan had on this episode.
[00:21:06] Jonathan Friedman: I mean, Ben's your client. I haven't had much time with Ben, but I feel like Ben doesn't want to be in retirement because Ben will just spend all of that time thinking about the things that he could have done differently.
I think for me, that's why that guilt is the more important thing, more so than the blue sky piece or that regret or that remorse. But, um, yeah, the. That's my 2 cents that that's been Jonathan's hot take.
[00:21:34] Jon Ron: My, uh, my girlfriend and I went on a, uh, a grocery run to T and T and she bought. ,
[00:21:43] Jonathan Friedman: great store.
[00:21:43] Jon Ron: It's fantastic. It's an Asian supermarket that has imported goods for those, uh, who aren't in, uh, the GTA or, or Ontario, but the, uh, one of her purchases was chicken floss cakes. And, uh, she had one bite and decided that she didn't like them. And I had one bite and said that they are tolerable. And she said, well, I think I'm gonna get rid of these.
And, I immediately said, oh no, don't do that. Uh, I'll take care. I'll take care of the rest of them. And now I have like 20 of these things and I'm filled with a lot of regrets., not, I don't regret my, my sentiment that you shouldn't waste food and therefore we shouldn't throw them out, but I do regret now owning chicken floss, um, in my home. So, so now, now I'm saddled, with the feeling like, do I move on? Do I admit my mistake? Do I let go of the chicken floss or do I double down on my, on my decision and eat chicken floss for the next, uh, for the foreseeable future?
[00:22:52] Jonathan Friedman: So for somebody who didn't know whether or not they liked chicken floss why did you buy that much chicken floss?
[00:22:58] Jon Ron: It only came in that, uh, a package that quantity it's either you get no chicken floss or you get 20 chicken floss.
[00:23:07] Jonathan Friedman: And the other important question is how many out of 10 dentists recommend chicken floss?
[00:23:11] Jon Ron: Uh, chicken Flos is not a recommended part of your dental care. It is however uh, a recommended part of a balanced breakfast, which is weird, cuz they keep on adding, you know, you can balance anything if you just outweigh the other side enough, right?
Like you could out, you could balance an elephant doesn't mean that you should have everything that's on the scale. So I don't know what they're putting into or eating elephants. Yeah, exactly. Well, I don't know. I don't know what they're trying to outbalance the chicken floss with, but it's probably not gonna be great.
[00:23:49] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. So, Jon, I'm thinking we should send, um, I let's review these questions that we're gonna send to Ben. And then, um, I think, I think we should go ahead and, and do that and stop talking about elephants.
[00:24:03] Jon Ron: I, I was, uh,
[00:24:04] Jonathan Friedman: let's talk about the real elephant,
[00:24:05] Jon Ron: the real elephant. Do you think chicken Flos is made of elephants? Chicken floss, is chicken floss elephant floss?
[00:24:14] Jonathan Friedman: It's chicken. Do you think chicken floss is elephant floss? Do you think chicken floss is made of elephants? Um, tough to see.
[00:24:22] Jon Ron: Chicken floss is elephants. All right. So, okay. I'll, I'll send these out to Ben and, uh, hopefully, something clicks and we'll get a response.
[00:24:32] Jonathan Friedman: We'll see you on the flippity floss.
[00:24:46] Jon Ron: So Jonathan, I got a reply post and, uh, this is the rest of the podcast. And now I'm gonna read it.
[00:24:58] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. We're, we're moving from the robotic Alyssa voice to.
[00:25:02] Jon Ron: This is the new voice of the podcast. What do you think about it?
[00:25:09] Jonathan Friedman: I'm not sure. I, I don't even know how to do that, but I'm not sure. And I think about it.
[00:25:14] Jon Ron: It sounds, it sounds a, it sounds a lot more, uh, uh, flippant when I hear it coming outta your, your, your voice. I'll be honest with you.
[00:25:20] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. It's, it's not me. Why be you when you could be me? So, whoa, whoa.
[00:25:26] Jon Ron: Why be you?
[00:25:26] Jonathan Friedman: What did Ben say?
[00:25:28] Jon Ron: Ben, Ben writes back:
"I recall Qui-Gon would ask me why I was so concerned over where I was going and never with what I was doing at the moment. I thought I'd grown so much since those days, but his words still seem to be lost on me. When I thought of the future, I felt certain my order would flourish and spread peace to those who were most in need of it.
Now I sit and wait for my role to end while wondering about what could have been. I've made so many mistakes that when I close my eyes, they're all I see. It's hard for me to disconnect those feelings from what needs to be done."
And that's, uh, that's what we, that's what we call the sauce cause that's uh, that's a spicy one.
[00:26:14] Jonathan Friedman: That's what we call the sauce. What do you think? What? What's the flavor?
[00:26:18] Jon Ron: Oh, it's uh, that's a tamarin sauce. If I ever tasted it.
[00:26:22] Jonathan Friedman: Tamarin sauce.
[00:26:23] Jon Ron: Mm-hmm spicy tamarin sauce.
[00:26:26] Jonathan Friedman: Sounds good.
[00:26:27] Jon Ron: Yeah. Qui-Gon is, um, Qui-Gon gotta be a nickname, right? Actually could be, you know, I, it could be, it could be the same place that you find hammer and sauce.
You find people named Qui-gon.
[00:26:43] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, you know what they say? Let Qui-Gons be Qui-Gons.
[00:26:46] Jon Ron: That's terrible. And I, you know what, you know what I, I set myself up for it and I, and I, and I'm gonna live with my, my regret, but I set it up.
[00:26:55] Jonathan Friedman: Hey, Hey, Hey, you know what would be good here if we do this Qui-Gon
[00:26:58] Jon Ron: yeah, you're right.
And I don't know what I was expecting.
That's gonna be great.
[00:27:03] Jonathan Friedman: You're like, Hey, Hey, Hey, flipping Jonathan. , it'll be really good if we do this Qui-Gon bit "hey guys, we're just back from the break. We wanna reel your attention back into, you know, the sauce" and you're like, Hey, let's talk about let, let's do a Qui-Gon.
[00:27:19] Jon Ron: See, now I'm gonna sit and wonder.
[00:27:21] Jonathan Friedman: And then you expected me to do anything.
[00:27:23] Jon Ron: Had, had I not made, tried to do a Qui-Gon bit. Where would we be now? What would we be talking about? Would we be helping Ben better? And that's the regret when I close my eyes. It's all I see. It's I see your. Your, uh, destroying of the flow of the goof, uh, making a pun on this hallowed podcast that we do together, uh, me and AI, you, uh, uh, a flippant, a flipping boy from, uh, from Toronto or flipping man.
[00:28:01] Jonathan Friedman: I am a flipping man.
[00:28:04] Jon Ron: I've, uh, I've got, I've got, I've got no clue. Uh, what to tell Ben, I, I gotta be honest with you. I, I, I, I, I feel like, I feel like we've tapped into some trauma, you know, like you ever, you feel like you, you, you do a good job asking questions enough that all of a sudden you see, uh, You see a lot of trauma unfold in the, in the journals.
And, and now you're wondering like, do I lean into it? Do I shy away from it? Am I, are we going, are we going too deep, too fast? What, what do you think?
[00:28:46] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, so I think this happens a lot actually when people, so our job is coaches is when we see words that, you know, like drop in the bomb, we catch onto those things and ask about it.
That's the whole point. And in the first journal, we realized there were a lot of regrets we asked about it. We're diving further into the regret. I, I, I gen my general rule on this is if somebody is sharing it, especially to the detail that Ben is it it's fair game to talk about their ready or at a place to talk about it.
Generally people, especially in a coaching environment, um, People usually feel pretty comfortable to say, Hey, you know, I'm, I'm not ready to talk about that now. And always at the beginning of a coaching relationship, we always say, Hey, you know, like this is our goal as, uh, your coach. Um, but if, uh, you're ever feeling uncomfortable let us know as well.
[00:29:44] Jon Ron: And I guess I, I guess I have, I have a hot take on that, on that point, Jonathan and that.
[00:29:48] Jonathan Friedman: Oh hot take.
[00:29:49] Jon Ron: It's uh, it's not the real character of the regret that matters what happened isn't the crux. It's it's and I know we're always talking about getting the story, but sometimes I feel like the more important part of the story is, how do you feel about it now?
And what is it stopping you from doing? Uh, and it is, you know, it's a callback from my days in psychiatry where you, you work down, you work down the symptoms of a, of a particular, uh, condition, and then you ask the question. Yeah. But is it, is it messing up your life? Is it stopping you from functioning? Is it stopping you from doing what you want to do?
And, and that's kind of how I want to take, uh, I want to take this one. I wanna, I wanna ask if it's such a limitation to, to, to, to look at your life, look at your decisions, uh, see your regrets and, and to not do what you, what you want to do in the first place. Like, is it impossible for Ben to, try to bring peace, to create peace when, uh, when he's made mistakes in the past?
Or is it just kind of par for the course?
[00:31:09] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And I think for me, the thing that pops up the most in this journal, it's hard for me to disconnect those feelings from what needs to be done. I'm wondering. I say that heftily, I'm wondering if Ben knows what needs to be done. The previous journal to stop try, you know, what should he do?
And in this journal, it's hard for me to disconnect those feelings from what needs to be done. I'm wondering if there's that sense of what needs to be done. Maybe we don't need to, maybe we can acknowledge, you know, those feelings, but it seems that there is a place to move on.
Do you know what I mean?
[00:31:50] Jon Ron: Yeah. I, I know what you're saying.
Well, it also, it, it dawns on me that I, I don't think that Ben has such doubt over what needs to be done. I, I feel like, I feel like it's very clear. It's, it's just the will to take the step forward and do it is, it seems to be the main crux of the problem. It's you know, it's like how, you know, you're supposed to go to the gym and you know, what benefits will happen and, you know, you'll feel good and you know, it'll be good, but you're just trying to find the right motivation, willpower, even though you've failed in the past, or you've had bad experiences in the past, trying to, trying to go to the gym and get, get jacked, get ripped, get diesel, uh, you know what you're supposed to do.
You just don't know how do I go about doing it? How do I? How do I let go? That's my take on this whole thing. It's up for interpretation, but that's how I take it.
[00:32:53] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, that's fair. And I think I would ask to, for them to again, write it out because, um, and not to just go and do it, just to write it out and in a way animals are all play, you know, the back and forth of what do you do first?
What happens when that happens? Almost like a decision tree. And by doing that, it allows you to sort of, you know, see what the possibilities that'll happen as a result of your actions. And the truth is often that doesn't look so bad is when you let the thoughts of letting those thoughts sort of like linger around in your brain, right?
[00:33:35] Jon Ron: Yeah. It's a lot easier, to catastrophize. When everything is bouncing around in your head, but when you write it down, certain things seem more likely than others.
[00:33:45] Jonathan Friedman: And I feel like in this case, the focus is so much on regret and there's almost, a fear about taking that next step forward. So my question is without jumping, you know, head first into it, like let's do it in the journal first.
What does it look like? Is it that intense? Or is it, you know, not as bad as you this? And it might be, and we'll get through that together too. But that's where I would go.
[00:34:14] Jon Ron: I, I wanna, I wanna do that with Ben and I wanna have him take one eye on the future. And one eye on the past. I want one eye to look at, you know, cuz he's mentioning his mentors a lot, his, his teachers.
And it makes me wonder, does, does he believe, uh, that they never made mistakes themselves? Because, um, he's clearly up to some sort of expectation that he either set for himself or someone else set for him. And I wanna know too, to what extent he believes that he's supposed to be this perfect paragon of, of truth and justice or whatever. And I want to know, I want to know how, how realistic it is because I feel like, I feel like the more we have him write down what he thinks was meant to happen, what he thinks will happen. The more we have him get out of his head. And I think that that might be the best thing we could do for him as a coach.
[00:35:12] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, I love it. So, John, are you gonna go ahead and, uh, send this off to your buddy boy,
[00:35:17] Jon Ron: I will just, after this, uh, this quick plug that we're gonna do for the journal that talks back, which is a website, I think.
[00:35:28] Jonathan Friedman: A website? I was gonna ask you what's that, but now, I have to take it.
[00:35:33] Jon Ron: Well
it's listening, you, you made the dang thing. So, I think you should at least take some of the responsibility here.
[00:35:40] Jonathan Friedman: Well, we, we do have a website. It's the journal that talks back.com. And on that website, you can read all about us. You can play with some stickers and then you can book an intake call by clicking the book, a call by.
[00:35:53] Jon Ron: Do I have to do those things in that order question?
[00:35:57] Jonathan Friedman: I mean, there are stickers, play with the stickers, you know what I mean? They're there to have fun. You can drag them, you can put them over more important things on the website. You can change the colors of the background to like pink and yellow and green, but there are also important words. You can be distracted if you want to be, but you don't need to be, if you don't need to be, you can book a call.
And on that intake call, you'll talk to some fantastic person on our intake team, who will match you with the perfect coach.
And then you will have a coach to talk to.
[00:36:31] Jon Ron: Jonathan. When I call, when I call in.
[00:36:33] Jonathan Friedman: At the end of linear time.
[00:36:35] Jon Ron: When I call, when I call in, am I gonna get a voice that says you won't believe the level of coaching that we have ready for you?
[00:36:43] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, we, the, the only, we, we only have Alyssa on our intake team. That's it.
[00:36:49] Jon Ron: Was, was that expensive talk voice. Was she hard to get?
[00:36:54] Jonathan Friedman: Wasn't easy, but Alyssa believes in what we do. So, uh, you know, we wield and deal a bit. We did what we needed to do.
[00:37:01] Jon Ron: I believe in coaching for personal growth.
[00:37:05] Jonathan Friedman: Exactly. Way to go, Alyssa.
[00:37:07] Jon Ron: Yeah. Thanks, thanks, Alyssa. Thanks for being, uh, thanks for being on the podcast with us.
[00:37:13] Jonathan Friedman: So if, uh, you or anyone, you know, is needing some accessible coaching, that's super affordable and has some fantastic coaches on the other end, feel free to give us a check out at the journal that talks back.
[00:37:24] Jon Ron: And obvious.
And obviously, and obviously, the journal that talks back.com is where you can, uh, get, uh, uh, your, your coaching. But if you just wanna listen to our podcast and spread the word, we love that too. We're on the socials, uh, uh, you know, at, uh, what was it, Jonathan_A_Friedman underscore back slash 1990
[00:37:52] Jonathan Friedman: many back slashes.
[00:37:53] Jon Ron: Seven, uh, forwards forward-slash uh, greater than sign. Uh, a Superfly. That's you that's your Instagram handle, right?
[00:38:03] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. Just type that in on Google. And you'll see me pop up again.
[00:38:07] Jon Ron: And, uh, or you can hit us up at Jonathan's with a Z, uh, at the journal that talks back.com. If you want to send us, uh, uh, questions or you can, uh, send a bird, um, that's it just send, just send a bird.
[00:38:26] Jonathan Friedman: We're not gonna tell you where the.
[00:38:27] Jon Ron: The bird knows where all birds know. That's like how all birds can fly south. They know how to get to us.
[00:38:33] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. Yeah. We're all. How far south do you go? We look at the south.
[00:38:40] Jon Ron: No, no. We're like, no, they know how to fly south and they know how to get to the journal that talks back.
[00:38:45] Jonathan Friedman: Uh, are we like Jewish Santa at the snowfield?
[00:38:51] Jon Ron: oh, oh.
[00:38:51] Jonathan Friedman: It's nowhere to go.
[00:38:53] Jon Ron: Is that, is that how he. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[00:38:55] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, the the the birds fly south for the winter to Jewish Santa Jewish, Jonathan Santa, like the Jewish Santa's house where, uh, instead of having toys, we all like sit down and have dinner. Uh, we get our flight on, you know, we do all the important things,
[00:39:09] Jon Ron: uh, birds of the word.
[00:39:11] Jonathan Friedman: We lost the plot. bird is the word.
Yeah. I'm sorry. Well, a good thing.
[00:39:16] Jon Ron: Uh, yeah, we're losing the plot. Alright. I, we got a final post. I can see it. I'm gonna read it. Okay.
[00:39:25] Jonathan Friedman: Go ahead.
[00:39:27] Jon Ron: "I go by Ben as a reminder of what I lost due to my blindness. It appears, however, that I am still willfully ignorant of many things. I blame myself for things that should have been obvious in hindsight, all because I refuse to focus on the present while they were happening.
I have a chance to be different now to be more mindful of my surroundings than I was all those years ago, retired or not. I am what I am within turbulent emotion there can be peace. Within the chaos, there can be harmony. I come from a long line of those who made many mistakes in their quest to help others yet. I do not regret ever following their example.
Thank you, friend, may the force be with you.
[00:40:07] Jonathan Friedman: What's this force. What did, what?
Um, mass time pushing your hands against you.
[00:40:11] Jon Ron: Mass times acceleration.
[00:40:14] Jonathan Friedman: Was that an MCAT question?
[00:40:15] Jon Ron: Well, that was an MCAT question. and, uh, I did not do well on that section, so I'm glad I still remember that. Um, yeah.
[00:40:23] Jonathan Friedman: You remember the formula?
[00:40:24] Jon Ron: Yeah. Well, it's, it's, uh, important, uh, for you to know what the force is, and I hope the forces with us, uh, because this, this reads to me, Like someone who is discovering their motivation again, uh, because none of this, you know, some, some of the dogma that, that Ben was dropping there, uh, harmony, chaos, emotions, peace, you know, it, it sounds like someone who, who, who felt certain back in the day and now, uh, Now was rediscovering, what, what drove them.
Uh, and I get that. I think I think it's, it's important to revisit your, your starting point and, and what, what lit the fire under your butt in the first place.
[00:41:18] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah, for sure. And I, I think there's almost this thing that happens. Well, not almost this thing that happens. There's this thing that happens where.
Once we hit, you know, that low, where we're feeling regret and we're feeling upset, we're feeling low energy. It's like, we're gonna be stuck there forever. But the truth is, you know, just talking it out sometimes can be helpful and you're talking it out. Ben seems to be, you know, talking about how, you know, maybe there is a chance to be different now.
Maybe it doesn't always need to be that way.
[00:41:58] Jon Ron: Yeah. And it's, and it's, uh, it's been a, it's been a back and forth with Ben because Ben, um, Ben was a, is a pretty blue sky thinker when you get him going, uh, he, he has a lot of hopes for the future. He actually thinks that things are gonna turn out, um, better, much better than, uh, most people these days.
Uh, he's not too worried about the economy. He thinks that the government thing will work itself out. Uh, he has a lot of hope for future generations and, and hearing that from him. Uh, I, I, you know, I, I asked him. Where's this optimism go looking backwards. And he, he reflected a little and he, and he told me a little bit, uh, about, about the turbulent past.
And, and he, he, he said that he actually has a lot of takeaways, uh, a lot of lessons that he learned from his mistakes. And I think that's a very healthy and useful way to look at past mistakes is to, is to be open to learning from them.
[00:43:05] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. I, I love that. I love that. It's like this, this idea of, we don't need to be stuck. We can take some time to learn from mistakes, but also that those mistakes don't necessarily need to define us. We can have, you know, not a new beginning, but, a beginning. Way to go, ben. That's awesome. Love it.
[00:43:29] Jon Ron: Uh, Jonathan.
And can I get you fired up for some listener questions? I know, I know it's, uh, I know it's at that time of year, the allergies are going the, the sun, the, the world is, is, is warming up and you, you run pretty hot. So, you know, you're sweating. Uh, you're trying to, you're trying to be active. You're trying to be engaged in, in your life and, and, and summer at the beginning of summer is just, is just not really your your best time.
But I, I, you know, I, I know the listener questions, get you.
[00:44:04] Jonathan Friedman: That's an assumption.
[00:44:05] Jon Ron: That's, it's an assumption, but I've known you for, so I've known you for so long that I just, uh, I feel like, I feel like it's, it's, it's my job to make sure that we get some listener quest, some listener questions up in here to give you, to give you that fire that gets you, that gets you going.
[00:44:25] Jonathan Friedman: So... we do have a listener question and it's from Laura. And the question is, how do you start? I don't have a listener question.
So we do have a listener question. And that listener question is from Laura. She's back, uh, way to go. Laura, we love your questions. And Laura's question is how do you start a business?
[00:45:01] Jon Ron: I have no idea. I've never started a business before. Jonathan. You're, you're the expert here. Uh, you start businesses like, uh, all, all the time.
Yeah. Like, like, well, but you start successful businesses quite a bit. You, you get, uh, you get off the ground more, more often than I've seen anyone else do it. So, how do you start a business?
[00:45:24] Jonathan Friedman: I appreciate that, man. Let's talk about it. So I think the most, I, I think the most important thing to do to start a business is the most boring part of it. And I hate boring things, but I do think in this case, it's the most important, and that's a business plan, but not the business plan where you pull out an Excel spreadsheet and you just start crunching numbers and all that bullshit. No, we don't need to start with that.
For me, what I want to do is I want to kind of like what we did with Ben before, where we think about what will life look like if you're running that business. But think for real about it. Like, for example, I used to run a coffee business, but it was a coffee delivery business. So. When I'm thinking about the plan, you know, you wake up at six in the morning, you prepare all your coffee orders, and then you're spending most of your time driving in a car that smells like coffee, delivering coffee.
Does that sound fun? Does it not. For me, it did. For other people, they might hear that and say, that's ridiculous. Why would I want to do that? That sounds boring. And in that case, you might need to adjust your business idea. It, the business idea is something you need to be. So excited about it because at the beginning, especially you're gonna be the one who's driving it.
So if sitting in a car that's sometimes hot or sometimes it's winter that smells like coffee, delivering coffee to coffee to some happy faces, seems like. Not the perfect plan, maybe adjusting it and having, you know, um, a popup cafe might sound better. One where you're not driving around, dropping off coffee, but people are coming to you.
Then you think about, well, how am I gonna get those people to me? Well, part of town, am I gonna be in? Does that part of town seem like a cool place where I'd like to hang out and be a fixture in the community? Does it not? Am I gonna have more of an online business than an online presence? So like, for example, with the journal that talks back thinking about running a program, like not, not so different than what I, what I did as a youth worker or as a coach, but running a program where we can match young professionals with coaches.
Sounds amazing. And I get to run that. That sounds amazing. I gotta wake up. I get to talk to people. I get to do intake. I got it to have really interesting conversations with interesting people. I gotta build this out. That's exciting. And I get, to do it from the comfort of my swirly chair. Even better. I can have coffee when I want, I can go to the washroom when I want, I can take a shower when I want, I can take a break when I want, and I can also like do cool things.
If sitting at home doesn't sound like you you're hearing that in like, oh man, I have to sit in front of my computer record podcasts with Jon, then maybe it, it's an adjustment. It's not like a business plan. Yeah. Right. That AI, that robot of a human. So it's not about writing out the boring business plan.
We're gonna get to that later, but it's really about thinking about what your days are gonna look like for real, like from waking up to going to sleep. And if that's exciting to you, um, and that's really where we start. I think a lot of people start with numbers and numbers are important, but they're not gonna run a successful business without excitement.
[00:49:01] Jon Ron: People, people worry about feasibility before they worry about fun-ability.
[00:49:07] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. If it's not fun, why are we doing it? Right? Like, it's not, it's not easy to run a business. Sometimes it sucks. So you have to be waking up and saying, wow, this is important to me. And I love the way that I get to do it.
If that's good, then move on to numbers, and figure out if it's feasible, cuz that can be more flexible in a way.
[00:49:27] Jon Ron: That's how I feel. That's how I feel about this podcast. You know, uh, there are days where I feel like I'm, uh, reading this journal and I'm just like, I'm gonna have to talk about this on the microphone, but then we start and I'm like, you know what?
This is so much fun. I love talking to my friend, Jonathan and I love, uh, having a second opinion on these, on these posts and how, how we're gonna go about coaching them and, and, you know, getting to, getting to hear about all these characters' lives. Like I just, I love it. And so even when it's, when it's hard work, I, I, I still enjoy it.
And it sounds like, sounds like there's a lot of overlap between that feeling and running your own business and start. Start with your business idea. You just gotta feel it in your bones. That it's something that you'll wanna do even during the hard times.
[00:50:18] Jonathan Friedman: Yeah. We can always get to like dragons then investing opportunities, spreadsheets, and numbers later.
It's if the rest of it's fun to you first, and if it's exciting and even if the spreadsheets are exciting to you, then go for it, my friend you're on a good path. May the force be with you.
[00:50:36] Jon Ron: And with you, raise your hearts.
[00:50:40] Jonathan Friedman: Raise your hearts.
[00:50:41] Jon Ron: Raise your spirit.
[00:50:42] Jonathan Friedman: And also with your spirit, if you are quite gone are, uh, at home listening to character coaching and have thought, but damn, how do I listen to it?
You can find us all over social media. You can find us on Instagram at @journalthattalksback. You can find us on LinkedIn on, uh, Facebook, on TikTok. You can find us on all of your favorite podcasting platforms. You can find us on the moon, you can find us on different planets.
[00:51:13] Jon Ron: Mercury.
You can find us, Pluto, and Jupiter.
[00:51:17] Jonathan Friedman: Oh, what, what was that planet they came out with when we were in grade two and we were like, oh damn, there's another planet that we have to learn. Sedna right?
[00:51:24] Jon Ron: Harden?
[00:51:24] Jonathan Friedman: Was that a planet?
[00:51:25] Jon Ron: They came out with it like an, like an apple launch event.
[00:51:32] Jonathan Friedman: It's a dwarf planet, 9 0 3 7 7 Sedna. That's a thing you can find us there.
That's all I'm trying to say, Jon.
[00:51:39] Jon Ron: Jonathan, the term is little people planet. And, uh, if you can.
[00:51:43] Jonathan Friedman: I don't know.
[00:51:44] Jon Ron: If you can, if you can please, uh, uh, uh, follow us and leave us a review on whatever podcasting. The application you're doing, uh, ideally a five-star review or, or whatever many stars are available to you.
We'd, uh, we'd appreciate it. 70 stars cause every, uh, every little bit helps to get the word out and, uh, help people know that we're here to help them get coached and answer their questions. You'll never believe what these people did on their coaching podcast.
[00:52:20] Jonathan Friedman: But you can better believe.
[00:52:22] Jon Ron: You better believe
Character Coaching is a production of The Journal that Talks Back, a product at Frame of Mind Coaching. To get accessible coaching for just $200 a month, book a free intake call at thejournaltalksback.com. Our music is The Swindler by The Original Orchestra featuring Ian Post. Our editing is done by one of the Jonathans on the show, which one? We'll never tell.